I Do Not Think That Means What You Think That Means(1 Corinthians 14:34-35)
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34 Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says. 35 If they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in church meetings.
Ladies, don’t get mad
Men, don’t cheer
Just wait...
These 2 verse, and 4 others later in the New Testament have been used improperly to put women down and to claim that God cannot, and will not, use a woman in proclaiming the Gospel message (or at least for certain ministries in proclaiming the Gospel message. Since this came up in our reading this week, I must deal with the issue of women in ministry this morning.
Some of you may have never given thought to the issue, and some might have your mind made up. I stand before you this morning declaring that the Church of the Nazarene believes in the ordination of women to ANY and EVERY role of ministry, and today I will do a little part to explain why.
A Pragmatic Argument from History
A Pragmatic Argument from History
Women involved in the Church of the Nazarene
Some of the most profound missionaries, teachers, pastors, and thinkers in the Church of the Nazarene(and other denominations) have been women.
Some of my professors have been women.
If we take this at face value...
No women on our boards
no women Sunday school teachers
No women on the platform
Pragmatism = if it works DO IT (this is a terrible argument in biblical interpretation, yes) BUT, we must ask, “If women in leadership/ministry were condemned by God, why would God allow benefits to come from their ministry?” Why would God allow this to continue to work if it is opposed to God’s will?
Also, if this is condemned by God, can we trust those who have come to faith because of the ministry of women? If women in ministry is condemned do we need to reeducate those who come to faith through women?
Do I need to have my understanding of the Life of Holiness, Greek, Marriage and Family Counseling, English Literature, biology, music, piano, retaught to me because at some point in time a woman was placed in authority over me?
And, if it is ok for a woman to have authority over someone as a child, at what point is that one no longer a child and no longer required to submit to the authority of a woman. Doesn’t that negate what Paul says elsewhere?
21 And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
The Argument from the Whole of Scripture
The Argument from the Whole of Scripture
2 Passages in the New Testament that SEEM to discredit women from ministry
Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says. If they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in church meetings.
Women should learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly. For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived by Satan. The woman was deceived, and sin was the result. But women will be saved through childbearing, assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.
When considering these two passages, I remember that there are 31,102 verses in the Bible, which is made up of 23,145 verses in the Old Testament and 7,957 verses in the New Testament.
Out of 31,102 verses many have made a RULE for women based upon 7 verses that have been stripped from their context and original purpose...
But, what does the whole of Scripture say?
Article of Faith for the Church of the Nazarene
We believe in the plenary inspiration of the Holy Scriptures, by which we understand the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments, given by divine inspiration, inerrantly revealing the will of God concerning us in all things necessary to our salvation, so that whatever is not contained therein is not to be enjoined as an article of faith.
Explain PLENARY INSPIRATION = The Testimony of the Whole Body (in this case all 66 books give testimony). In other words, let Scirpture interpret Scripture. Then, when that is not possible we use reason, tradition, and experience.
Scripture has MANY examples of women who were used by God in a place of authority and who spoke to God’s people...
List of women in Scripture who were given authority by God
Old Testament
Miriam - Moses’ older sister who watched over Moses in the reeds of the Nile and gets their mother to nurse Moses after Pharaoh's daughter finds him in the river. According to Exodus 15:20 she is consider to be a prophetess (a female who speaks God’s word to the people).
Then Miriam the prophet, Aaron’s sister, took a tambourine and led all the women as they played their tambourines and danced.
Esther - A young Jewish girl who was chosen to be the new queen to replace Vashti who had been deposed by King Xerxes. After having to compete in a sexual beauty pageant she is chosen by the King. She learns of a plot to destroy her people and EVENTUALLY decides she must speak up about this - even though this was against cultural norms and she could be killed as well. She finds a way to be able to speak to the king and she saves her people.
Rahab - A prostitute in Jericho who gives aid to 2 spies. The spies promise that her family will be saved when Jericho is attacked (Rahab becomes the mother of (Boaz- the Great Grandfather of King David…).
Deborah - a Judge and military leader. This was before kings entered the picture. Judges were often prophets who spoke God’s desires for the people and they discerned issues of civil rule. They often were commanders of the army - they functioned as an early Head of Government in a tribal governmental system.
New Testament
Jesus’ genealogy in Matthew 1 contains 4 women. All of them could be considered to have questionable honorable status in that world.
Mary (picture?) - This one is obvious, but the Gospel needed a virgin! Also, this is a fulfillment of what God says to Even in Genesis 3.
15 And I will cause hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel.”
The punishment in the garden looks forward to a time when the rule of Satan is crushed. I find it fitting that we would place the blame of the fall on a woman, Therefore God begins the story of NEW CREATION birthed from a woman. We MUST recognize this reversal in the story. Some argue that Sin was birthed through women - But God argues that SALVATION was birthed by another woman!!
Samaritan Woman at the well -This woman tells her community about Jesus and many believed
39 Many Samaritans from the village believed in Jesus because the woman had said, “He told me everything I ever did!”
Women at the Tomb - we would not have the Gospel that includes the resurrection if it were not for the testimony of the women who went to the tomb on Sunday morning. Yes, Jesus may still have appeared to the disciples, but the FIRST to tell the Gospel that includes resurrection were WOMEN. Given the culture of the day, these women were not believed - but that does not discredit that they were the FIRST to proclaim resurrection.
Women in N.T. churches
The New Testament is FULL of women who were known in the church, who are identified as being prominent leaders, and who are applauded for their teaching...
Priscilla - She and her husband, Aquila are always mentioned together in the NT. Priscilla’s personal character or her role in the church may account for her name coming before her husband’s in four out of six references. They were leaders in the church in Rome and Ephesus when expelled from Rome. She being listed first is NOT by accident!
18 Paul stayed in Corinth for some time after that, then said good-bye to the brothers and sisters and went to nearby Cenchrea. There he shaved his head according to Jewish custom, marking the end of a vow. Then he set sail for Syria, taking Priscilla and Aquila with him.
24 Meanwhile, a Jew named Apollos, an eloquent speaker who knew the Scriptures well, had arrived in Ephesus from Alexandria in Egypt. 25 He had been taught the way of the Lord, and he taught others about Jesus with an enthusiastic spirit and with accuracy. However, he knew only about John’s baptism. 26 When Priscilla and Aquila heard him preaching boldly in the synagogue, they took him aside and explained the way of God even more accurately.
3 Give my greetings to Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in the ministry of Christ Jesus.
19 Give my greetings to Priscilla and Aquila and those living in the household of Onesiphorus.
Junia - Not much is known of her, but she is mentioned in Romans 16.
7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.
Some suggest that she is Joanna the wife of Chuza
1 Soon afterward Jesus began a tour of the nearby towns and villages, preaching and announcing the Good News about the Kingdom of God. He took his twelve disciples with him, 2 along with some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases. Among them were Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons; 3 Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod’s business manager; Susanna; and many others who were contributing from their own resources to support Jesus and his disciples.
This leads them to believe she was one of the women who went to the tomb - thereby making her an Apostle.
Phoebe -
1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a deacon in the church in Cenchrea. 2 Welcome her in the Lord as one who is worthy of honor among God’s people. Help her in whatever she needs, for she has been helpful to many, and especially to me.
And, of course we can add more to the list - these are just a few, very notable, examples.
What does GOD say about this?
The purpose of women in creation
18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper who is just right for him.”
‘ezer cenegdo… A POWER LIKE HIM, FACING HIM, TOE TO TOE, FACE TO FACE AS AN EQUAL!!! Not subservient!!!
But yes, sin entered the picture and destroyed the Good that God created - and it messed with our relationships!
WOMEN ARE NOT SOLELY AT FAULT FOR THE FALL!!
6 The woman was convinced. She saw that the tree was beautiful and its fruit looked delicious, and she wanted the wisdom it would give her. So she took some of the fruit and ate it. Then she gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it, too.
Because of the Fall the relationships are DIFFERENT and the holy harmony was destroyed. God DESCRIBES (nor prescribes) what that new relationship will be like… (Side note, at the fall ONLY the ground and the serpent are cursed - NOT HUMANS!)
16 Then he said to the woman, “I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy, and in pain you will give birth. And you will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you.”
This is a description. When sin entered in, the harmony in our relationships was destroyed. Men would use that disharmony to RULE over women, and women would desire a relationship so much that they would ALLOW this to happen.
Genesis 3:16 is NOT to be the norm- it is the result of SIN.
The Church is the community that by the power of Christ is enabled to FLEE from sin and live the re-created life that God desires for us. The CHURCH, of all places, should be where we clearly see the results of NEW CREATION blossoming in our community. The effects of SIN SHOULD BE REVERSED in our NEW CREATION COMMUNITIES!
This was ACTUALLY seen in the early church! Women were often the first to come to faith in Christ because they had the least to lose and the most to gain from what the Church offered with the new creation community. The relationships between women and men were drastically different than what they were in the rest of the world that the appeal to women was STRONG. The Gospel appealed to women in the early church BECAUSE of the New Freedom it afforded them in Christ - women were treated as first class humans, just like men - EVEN BY PAUL who penned a few words that have been abused by others.
Scripture tells the story of WOMEN along with MEN sharing the Gospel and being used by God in POWERFUL, AUTHORITATIVE WAYS to present the Gospel and carry out God’s plans for the redeemed community!
Let’s Deal With the Specific Text(s)
Let’s Deal With the Specific Text(s)
34 Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says. 35 If they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in church meetings.
11 Women should learn quietly and submissively. 12 I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly. 13 For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived by Satan. The woman was deceived, and sin was the result. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing, assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.
Artemis Cult - Women were privy of power and in that cult/temple a woman’s power was unchallenged. In Ephesus, when Paul writes 1 Timothy, there are false doctrines being taught in the church. Paul, before this statement, gives women permission to LEARN (which was revolutionary) and then gives the instruction for them not to teach. Why? So they could LEARN first… it is possible that a large reason for the false doctrine was because women refused to learn first (This makes sense with the Adam and Eve story - Eve was deceived because she was not learned. If you allow the woman to learn, you destroy the deception.
Also, Greek translation issues - What Paul says could be translated “I do not CURRENTLY, AT PRESENT, allow women to teach...” And, the Greek word for authority is more of a domineering, vindictive, usurping authority - one that challenges the authority that has been placed in the church (which would happen if women from the Artemis/Diana cult were used to having authority, they might challenge the authority in place before any sort of learning…)
And, later in the letter The Greek ALLOWS for women to be Deacons (ministers) in the church...
11 In the same way, their wives must be respected and must not slander others. They must exercise self-control and be faithful in everything they do.
In the Greek, the phrase “their wives” is simply WOMEN. This comes in the midst of a discussion of ministries within the church. The phrase COULD be referring to WOMEN DEACONS given the context of v. 13
13 Those who do well as deacons will be rewarded with respect from others and will have increased confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus.
Now about 1 Corinthians 14:24-25.
34 Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says. 35 If they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in church meetings.
There is discussion as to whether or not what is said in these two verses is actually written by Paul and original to the letter.
First, these verses us the plural “churches” where as in the rest of the letter the singular “church” is used in writing to the believers
Second, some manuscripts place the verses at the end of Chapter 14, not in the middle of an argument. The current placement of these verses break up the flow of discussion about order and decency in worship and about what it means to prophesy and speak in the church. This has lead some to state that these verses may not have been original to the letter and added in the margin at some point. Then, as the letter was transcribed later the marginal text note was placed into the letter. Some have suggested that it could have been Paul, himself, who placed these words in the margin in order to clarify a specif breach of order that the Corinthian church was committing.
Thirdly, if this is from Paul, and a BLANKET, UNIVERSAL PROHIBITION against women speaking in church Paul has gone against the story in Scripture, but ALSO Paul has contradicted what he has already said to the church in Corinth, and also Galatians, as well as his support of women in leadership like Priscilla.
But, let’s look at what Paul said a few chapters ago in this same letter...
Contrary to what Paul has already said
5 But a woman dishonors her head if she prays or prophesies without a covering on her head, for this is the same as shaving her head.
Paul here has an argument about honor and dishonor. He deals with the customs of his day and clarifies modesty in the church. It was assumed women would have their head covered while men would not (in Corinth at least). Also, in the marketplace and in the Corinthian culture, women who let their hair down would be considered prostitutes and that might cause weaker men to stumble. So, Paul reminds the church that although they are FREE from following these cultural norms (because of Christ) they also should continue them in the church to not bring shame and scandal to the church and to not cause others to stumble. And, the argument is the argument of mutual commitment to one another and to christ.
Head can mean source… We are mutually dependent upon each other.
BUT, in this discussion, Paul does NOT say that women should not speak in church - he assumes they WILL prophesie so they must do it honorably, and in order.
IF Paul wanted ALL women silent in church he did NOT state that elsewhere in the letter when dealing with dishonorable ways women could speak.
But, there is a reason for these 2 verses, if they are original, and they ARE in Scripture now… What do they teach us
This is a section on order within the worship. It would appear that the Corinthian worship gatherings were chaotic and unruly. Given these verses, we deduce that some women were speaking out of turn and asking questions of clarity within the worship context - that may not be the big deal, YET, it does disrupt the worship flow. The other cultural contextual issue is that MOST LIKELY women and men set separate during their gatherings. If a woman begins to ask a question during the gathering she would be shouting throughout the gathering space to get her husband’s attention - thus causing disruption. OR, she would ask another man for clarity - this would break a cultural assumption that only a woman’s husband could answer her questions, thus causing disruption as well as dishonor as a woman submits to the authority of a man who is not her husband (again, that is CULTURAL - NOT BIBLICAL…)
21 And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
There is also the cultural phenomenon of the Temple of Artemis where women were priestesses who worked in manipulating men (maybe some have been converted, but are learning new ways to function in the congregation).
Another note, to take this text literally would allow us t only prohibit married women from speaking (the text clearly is directed at women who are married and who cause a disruption in the flow of worship).
These two verse are NOT a blanket statement about women for all time - they are a statement regarding order, decency, honor, and cultural norms for a specific church during a specific period of specific abuse!
So, What do We Do?
So, What do We Do?
We acknowledge that these verses deal with a specific abuse, and are intended to teach us about an organized act of worship. But, they are not intended to shut women out of ministry - as that would be contrary to the witness of Scripture, God’s actions in history, and what Paul has also stated about women.
We recognize that Paul was right in what he wrote earlier
28 There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.
We recognize that if Paul DID write these 2 verses there is good reason, but that reason is NOT universal for the ENTIRE CHURCH for ALL TIME. Paul wrote SPECIFICALLY to a SPECIFIC church in a SPECIFIC context and a SPECIFIC place with SPECIFIC problems.
These instructions are NOT universal for THE CHURCH - they were guidelines set in place for a certain time for a certain church.
Ultimately, it is the grace of God in Jesus Christ that teaches us to be like Christ - who invites all (men, women, prostitutes, tax collectors, slaves, children) to follow him and be transformed to be like him - SO THAT WE CAN DISPLAY HIM (not our ideas or culture - BUT CHRIST ALONE) to our world.
May the Lord forgive us for the abuses we have put on others
May the Lord direct us in how we all are transformed to be more and more like HIM!