Yeshua Among the Sages

To our second attempt at a lecture series. We did this last year, we talked about messianism in Jewish and Christian thought, which I thought actually was fascinating to research and we try to do something else again that we thought would be relevant to our congregation. But also to others who might be interested

so, we've called this issue among the Sages

This was Doug's idea. and I think it's a good one, because

Sometimes our Lord has been placed. In places to really doesn't belong, if you don't understand if you don't understand what he's teaching and how he's teaching, you might think he is an Indian Guru.

This is not a joke Crystal. I mean some people have said he's some type of Guru and he's not but when we divorced him from what what he is, then he becomes something other than he is.

But he's Indian Guru.

And that's how you got all them saying that was caught in Russia.

Michael micronucleus. Michael passed away, but Michael has bought that when he was a kid at school. So we called this issue, among the stage is, I've subtitled my talk being Savvy disciples. Recognizing the teachings. Of our Lord and the soil in which they grow in Luke to, I think we can see your shoe Out Among the stages after three days, they found him in the temple sitting there among the rabbis listening to them and asking questions. The best student asks the best questions and all who heard him were amazed at the penetrating answers. He would ask questions and when he was asked questions, he would give answers. And the people there were amazed, he wasn't there to show off. I really believe he was there to learn.

but, In regards to rabbinic literature, we were talking before hand off and has been ignored. by our community, the Jesus following Community, or it's been really misunderstood I recalled my earliest interaction with what I would call a person attempting to use rabbinic literature wasn't Sunday school. Where I grew up, I was probably 10 or 11 and I distinctly remember the Sunday school teacher sang. Set the Pharisees in Jesus day. Said that a father could pick up his son on Shabbat, but not, if the boy had a stone or a piece of bread in his hand, isn't that silly?

That's what I was. That's what I was told by my Sunday school teacher. It was sad and I kind of like a bit of a mocking way but also look how ridiculous.

And it's weird because when I was studying with Frank a few years ago, I ran across this passage that says actually just the opposite but they talked about it. What is the law regarding moving? A child who's holding a stone in his hand. On Shabbat, the rabbis have taught a man may carry his son while the latter has a stone in his hand or a basket in which there is a stone and I just wonder how did I have a school teacher? Hear that? What do in what way did they hear the saying that they transferred? My guess is they weren't reading the original rabbinic literature but they transfer it to me as a 10 or 12 year old boy.

Sometimes we've been accused of using rabbinic literature. So much in this congregation that we even created a trailer warning. Then actually pass it out, but we did create it. It went something like this. Call jucifer Bennett literature. This is a diverse Congregation of people with Myriad of viewpoints while some may misunderstand or not see the value of rabbinic literature for the Elders of the Church of Messiah recognize that our faith community has historically interacted with Jewish religious teachers and the wealth of ancient biblical. Interpretation can be mutually beneficial and lead to Mutual elucidation of text. Most romantic literature is a window into religious ideas, that existed before during, and after the life of Yoshua, most of us are not entirely conversant with the religious milieu of his day. So patiently Arabic tax will be used to Aid. Our understanding the fact of its use is not an endorsement of the idea of spouse in the writing. Our doctrinal statement on the inspiration of scripture is clear and can be found in our statement of faith.

That was what we wrote not ever widely disseminated. I think it might be able to be found on the website though. Rabbinic literature, trigger warning.

I have an introductory lecture here, the nine lecture, but everybody still sleepy and barely paying attention and barely able to get dressed usually would be interested right now. I had this lecture and I think it's important to ask the question. Why are we here? Why is rabbinic literature important? Why should a Savvy disciple? Love. You sure even Care to look. And I think that there are some reason, some of them I noticed the phraseology in that trigger warning. I think I must have written it one.

It is a window into your shoes, cultural and religious world.

A second point. It's dismissal. Creates a heliocentric approach the issue at his movements, heliocentric a corset Greek Centric. When you avoid that, what you get is a very quick looking thing.

Will be with that. And also, I think there is Great Value in the mutual elucidation of texts. A text can shine light. On another text, a text in our Sacred Scriptures shine light on text. In the ancient from the ancient stages and vice versa. I think Doug will be dealing with this in his final lecture.

So, let's start with the first point. A window into your shoes religious World. We're dealing with ancient text and Rob will be like, think more with text and I will quickly. Go through some of these biblical texts. So like translations, a Biblical texts or getting all of these are really coming from somewhere, we have the Alex tax which is the Greek translation for the translation of the Hebrew texts. You can't forget that originated as a group. Text that was translated finalized in 150 BC, BC the Dead Sea Scrolls, we had today and they were very useful in a lot of ways. We saw that the Mt though it had done a great job, maintaining the Integrity of the text. It was not perfect. The Dead Sea Scrolls helped us amend some of the difficult readings that have been created by the masoretic text that are guns. Also or a Translation. Targum is in Aramaic word. They are translations of the Hebrew in Aramaic language.

They show up for the first time about 150 ad in written form. They're not just translations though. There are many different targums and some of them are more exact to the language and some of them include I would say rabbinic commentary. But but also it tells you what the people of the day are thinking about the tax and how they read them. So you have the four major targums, Uncle off this more specific to the the tax and likes to do. Jonathan is more free and includes more commentary, more of a hybrid. And then you have the Samaritan pentateuch. Also very ancient text and we can set it right beside the empty, and the alleged sex, and we can do a criticism of the text that way. Those are like the biblical texts are also rabbinic text that can be helpful to us. Does a quote from someone with a fry. even though, cuz I'm making the point that this is a window into your shoes, cultural and religious world

There is a wealth of varied information from all facets of public, and private, social, and spiritual life, the temple. The synagogue, and the house of study, we between facts regarding trade, economics, agriculture, craftsmanship. The life of the stages, the life of the Common Man. Urban-rural relations relations between the land of Israel and the diaspora. Dialogues debates, reflect both the home and the marketplace. The wealthy, the poor weekdays Shabazz festivals. In fact, every aspect of human life in all its variety of forms of expression is observed in rabbinic literature.

So what are some of these texts? In written form. Probably the most ancient is the mishnah a bridge texts between mission on. The Tall movie, The tester kind of also are in here like the sea frog and the Sea Frey and the field of the rubbish while. And then we get to the Babylonian talmud, these are romantic texts of varying ages or wide wide swath of time, really? The hottest things in them, that go that predates the writing down by hundreds of years.

So they give us a window.

4 scale. There are six volumes of the mishnah.

Codified a written down, maybe 200. That's kind of the general consensus on the time. and then you have the

Jerusalem talmud the top and Babylonian talmud underneath, right, volumes and volumes. Of writings.

And I don't want to get bogged down here, really. I'm not saying this is not the critical part of my lecture but I do because I think there's a general ignorance on what is the mission of and what is the talmud? And I want to spend at least a little bit of time here at the outset. Before I move on to the other points, I really want to make so it's called a minute or two.

Which, of course means to repeat from the verb shenar.

It is differentiated from that, which is red, the Mitre rights. We have, that witches read the biblical texts and then we have the mission that which is repeated Find feature is that it is oral pharisaic halacha. Okay, I want to make that point really clear. It is pharisaic halacha. It's not sad Christian halacha. It's not a scene halacha. Right. I like how you practice. It's not the Sadducees telling you how you practice? It's nothing as scenes. Suggesting how you practice? It's not the early. Jesus followers saying how you should practice. It's not the zealots saying how you should practice their all kinds of sex. in the second temple Judaism, this is one particular sect and their halak their way of practicing is In the mishnah.

Some call this oral Torah. They call it oral Torah.

It was not formalized in yeshua's life. It was an idea. It was a saying, it was a, an individual halak, an individual priest up for how you should walk that were being passed. Not codified in his life. Some of these things have been transmitted from many generations. It wasn't really feel yavneh when it started to be codified Yard-Man 70 AD after the destruction of the temple. When things start going to be codified and finally edited by Judah & the sea. In 200 about 200, It is primarily representative of two schools. Arguing the school of Hillel and the school of shammai. That's what the mission is. Primarily these to school arguing, and they are both in the Hillel like tradition. I'm sorry that I said that wrong. What, what is really? Because what it is really doing, it's putting both side-by-side, but it is always favoring. The one, it's always favoring. The Hillel like tradition. Okay. And really because Akiva is this frying person in the mission.

He's the one, formulating, some of the things that were before him, his things are formulated. It's his students who are focused on, in the third layer, there's multiple layers of the mishna and Akiva is in like three of them. He's really, he's a fart rightly called the father of the mishnah. And he is in the hell electrician, not the shed light tradition, right? So it gives the traditions of both but it is favoring the one And especially to the person of Akiva. Again, what you see in the mission is a particularized. presentation of pharisaic sayings from

but this is the stages of that fact, normal, but I think that's really important for us to remember,

I like to think that there is some need for oral Torah. I'm not saying this was passed from Moses at Sinai as some of the stages say coming down I would say no, this wasn't passed from Sinai. But I do think that there were some oral Traditions. That happened passed Moses says a couple of times in the Torah do it. Their God says to Moses to do it the way I showed you. Or do it the way I commanded you but we see no commands related to that thing like slaughtering of animals or the specifics about the mixing of the spices for the incense. There are a number of things that would actually require some oral tradition with them so I passed

For longtime I misunderstood what the mission actually is doing. And I think this quote will help. This is Abraham Goldberg for 40 years at Hebrew University lightweight. He's like about one of the greatest howman Scholars of the last century.

The question really is whether the mission was ever intended to be a binding code? That is definite compilation of law. Or whether it was never intended to be more than textbook of law, you see the difference. Is it the penal code of the state of Ohio? Or is it a law textbook that you learn at Ohio Northern University on how to do law? You see the difference? And Scholars still disagree on what actually it is, was it intended as an ancient law code? This is definitely how we do it or this is how we go about doing it. This is the process by which we make decisions. And Abraham Goldberg thinks it's the latter and so the shovel Osa fry and so does David loser, that it was not ancient Lee a definitive law code. But rather A book for helping you decide matters which would be done through the Millennia.

Our point of view.

Agrees that the chief aim of the final editor of the mishnah, was to present the gamma possible interpretations, not to compile, a definite canonical code of pharisaic law. This I misunderstood for years.

There's the Jerusalem talmud and I'm going to get a Tiny Town to talk again. I don't get bogged down here. It was more than a minute. I have to admit, I'm not doing well. That is the Jerusalem talmud in the artscroll Edition. Look at the Babylonian talmud.

Yeah, of course, that's not all the writing. There is commentary in there because that's that's what the deposit is. The saying something and the Kamara Kamara is the next generation of a commentary on the mishnah. And they're both put their and then more commentary is attached. Tubac.

So it's the oral commentary of the, the oral tradition of the mishna and then the commentary that is on the mishnah. And then, more Collingwood itself means like learning or teaching. So, that's how these two toddlers are the things that are learned, the things that are taught from the verbal Ahmad, you have the Jerusalem and the Babylonian, Talbots, these come to us, four hundred plus. I think the Jerusalem talmud was codified earlier, probably 3:50. Like I'm not going to spend too much time here but in the town that they are attempting to clarify the words and the positions and the viewpoints of those given commentary on the mishnah, that's what's going on in the toilet. The two, the two toddlers. They were differentiating them. The older is the Jerusalem talmud.

But it was always more fluid. The people who were in the land of dealing with these mission of traditions, they seem to not have any problem working them over.

so the Jerusalem talmud is like, Worked over Traditions that have been worked over. That's the best I have the high in, in our way of speak. Common way of speaking. That's the best I can do. They were far Freer in the land to be creative with the interpretations. They were handed. It wasn't this way in the schools of Babel, in the rabbinic schools of Babylon. They had Traditions that Came to dim. Back to the bar called the Rebellion, lots of Scholars fled, the land of Israel. Many of them went to Babylon, founded Schools. They're so we're talking like 130 140 150 and they began to talk and some of the Traditions they brought were actually older older they were more statically Traditions. They brought worst attic for longer.

And then they work them over a guy. So the Jerusalem talmud was always I would say free and how they use the text and the Babylonian talmud was always initially the tradition that they started with we're bit more static and then they began. To work them over. That's the best I can say at least he's fascinating literary. Quality of the talmud is a sagia this term for a less send. That is a represented where it's not, it's not exhaustive. There have been a lot of a lot of editing, a lot of selecting of what's in this lesson but that's the basic literary feature of the talmud. Especially the Babylonian talmud is this lesson Sevilla.

And then there's me trash. If you like Matthew Henry commentary, then you should understand midrash. If you like Warren wiersbe commentary, you should understand midrash. If you like a wolverine, look commentary, then you should understand midrash midrash ancient Jewish sages trying to explain Bible passages. Right? Nothing? Really to be afraid of their doing the same thing that you're doing when you're attempting to explain a Bible, passage some of these are fascinating. I deal in this morning, the other cuz the other is very complex. What is rush ravva? I end up using a lot and I do like to read the middle to the rubbish. My own also fascinating stuff to see for ABC frog. These are commentaries. No one is saying there, a hundred percent true. Even the people who are saying it, they are giving ideas. They're filling in holes on what a Bible passage might mean and how they should interpret ancient tax. There's some dates. I've already referenced some of them. I'm not going to deal with those dates anymore, but I do want to ask. So you're telling me that these writings are hundreds of years after my Lord. Yes, I'm supposed to consider them. When I try to understand the teachings of my Lord, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, how can they be helpful?

I would say, yes, many of the Traditions are quite old. They were passed orally. And we don't have to be suspicious of traditions passed orally because ancient cultures past things orally. Not just this one, all ancient cultures because of the difficulty of writing things down, the not everybody was a scribe. They told stories and pass things orally. And that's okay.

It shouldn't be a cause for skepticism. They didn't have cell phones and iPads mucking up their brains They had to learn things and remember them.

I'd like you at this point to consider.

a statement that we read in act act 5 from the famous Rabbi Rubin gum, Leo, When dealing with the Jesus movement, what should we do to these men? He makes a statement. He says,

if this plan is of, man, It will die, it will not endure. But if it is a god you will be unable to stop it. You won't end it. So if it's a man it will end If it's a god, you'll be unable to stop it. We see a very similar statement in the mishnah. In a boat.

I made a mistake to attribute this to Gabrielle in the past. It's so close to what he said in the New Testament. I think he probably did say it. But I can't definitely attributed to him in in chapter 5 of mission of vote. It says any dispute for the sake of Heaven. Will endure. And any dispute, not for the sake of heaven will not endure end. This is really essentially the exact same thing, but is attributed to him in the new, the new cabinet package in Acts, he see it again in mission. Mission of vote are considered some of the oldest. So we see these two parallel past, hundreds of years later, it's written down in 200 or plus, how could anything in that book? Be relevant. It is relevant because we could believe but Rabbi. We would say something exactly like that. And either he made it up himself or it's part of his religious world. Because we see it in the literature. Now, I'm not saying I favor the rabbinic literature over the New Testament writings. Of course, these are, my writings, these are the ones I have faced it, considering the larger picture of the culture. I look at many different sources, including rabbinic literature,

I also. I want to point out, if you say, Well, they're old, the stains are all late. It was written down 200 300 400. Plus why should I look look at them?

The person who says that. And tries to convince others that they're old and there's nothing to see in the literature. In a sense, what he's doing is? Limiting others. From looking considering you're like a beggar and you're going to glean in someone's field and you looking for a good field to glean in and you approach a field and there's a person standing there and he said you don't need to clean here. There's nothing in this field.

Do you walk on and you trust him and go on to another field to clean? Maybe he heard it from somebody else. Maybe it's not true in there. Is something in the field and you should go green. Maybe he did what he did. Look as hard as you would look. Telling people that there is nothing in rabbinic literature to learn. Inhibits our understanding of it because there are things that our community can look from a certain perspective. And when we look from our perspective,

We see things that are meaningful to us but we have a void in this literature for so long because a lot of people said in seminaries and other places, there's nothing to see there. There's nothing to clean and it releases people from the the value of the search. Therefore, we have very few in our in our movement who can handle rabbinic literature. Doug, and I were talking earlier, they're very few Because we avoided there are other reasons for that which one discussed in a second. Summer. Also asked the question was historic, what is the historical value in such bias of material or such material? Clearly there's a bias already said it was only one Jewish Sac. What benefit can we get from it? Well, we look at all the sources to help us understand the culture, right? If you put it alongside the New Testament, put it alongside Josephus, put it alongside the Apocrypha, put it alongside the pseudepigrapha, put alongside the Dead Sea Scrolls, put the rabbinic literature right there, and there is a way to identify the bias and there are things you can learn and set the bias to the side, right? That's actually possible.

The boys can be recognized.

And that is no, that's no reason just because it's bias or just because it may have been written down later. No reason to avoid it. We encourage you at church of the fire understand.

Understand the Apocrypha working all of these. That makes you a Savvy disciple of Our Lord.

The price is not everything attributed to the second. Temple. Isn't facts from that. Agree. However, many cases one can say with certainty or near certainty. What part of a passage from early generation is reliable. And what should be viewed? Skeptically? No, I'm not a master in this literature. I had I could say with certainty or near certainty.

I'm no expert.

Having two classes. Does not make me an expert. Good. But my guess is supposed to be a pet sitter classes in her pics cuz that's just the way it is. Because that literature is late. An unimportant which prevents us from really interacting with it cuz we don't know how to read it.

I also believe that is the dismissal and I think the good time to talk about the dismissal heliocentric, a Greek Centric, Jesus. Why has there been of dismissal one? I've already touched on some say, there's no real value here. Move on. There's no real value in. It doesn't connect to us. It's late. That's their world not our world. so then, We end up getting, you know, it's costumes, R Us, I mean, it's not really, but who is this?

Yeah, it is Greco-Roman Jesus.

I don't need to point out all the errors in this fine picture. This is a wonderful work of art. It's beautiful. Just not. you know, accurate to the time We get a Greek center Jesus when we dismiss. Rabbinic literature. Some say there's no perceived value. That's one of the reasons for the dismissal. Why has there been a dismissal?

Also, the difficulty of the Hebrew text verse, the Greek text, most New Testament Scholars, what language, do they learn, Greek, what language do, they feel comfortable working in, what language do they improve throughout their lives. So, what were they go to a Greek Josephus or a Hebrew missionary kiibru rabbinic? Text to try to understand something, they're going to go to Greek Josephus. Right? That's just the reality, the group text off and have one editor or one redactor Heber text have multiple layers. They're harder to work with without a doubt.

Most New Testament Scholars, dwell in the Greek, or the Latin and they feel comfortable there. Why else is there a dismissal? The price of just that there is a lack of creativity. To work with rabbinic text. It takes a creative reading.

To make sense of a Hebrew text of rabbinic text. Sometimes I like to give an example of this, one of my favorite,

One of my favorite teachings on this comes from the Babylonian talmud.

Sticks and a with her talking about all the demons that are around person in their life. This is a better coat, sorry.

Babylonian talmud tractate their hosts blessings. 6. + a There are demons all around person everywhere. This is what we don't see the spiritual world, but there are demons all around us, bumping into ass, okay?

Are they says they're more numerous than us. They stand about like, a ditch around the mound.

Each person has 1,000 to his left and 10,000 Days, right? That's a song. They're quoting.

The gemara describes a method by which one can see the demons.

The person wants to see them. Let him bring the placenta of a female cat. That is a black cat which is the daughter of a black cat, which is the first born black, who is the daughter of the first born black cat burn 2% in Fire and Put the ashes in the eyes and then he will see the demons.

Now, dealing with the passage creatively, what is the passage saying?

What? Don't do it. Bradley. I'm not a great talmud scholar, but I'm pretty sure I can grasp what they're saying the placenta of a first born black cat, which is also the first born, female black cat, which is also a first born, female black cat, Burn the placenta put in your eyes like this is it advisable?

Right. But what if you if you read the passage and say, look how ridiculous the things in the talmud are

Victor, they're suggesting. This is so onuris. And so complex that you really shouldn't try it. You don't need to see

List the spiritual forces, right?

Maybe someone would interpret this a different way, but I think I've I think that's where they're going with this.

There are ways to read rabbinic text.

And it requires some creativity.

I want to move on to the final section. Why I said that. when we read a text, one of ours, one of their side really there, if they're all the same and that's kind of the point when we read these texts,

Benefit from the explanation of them. The contents of our sacred document support each other. They actually do. In many, many ways. And it places our Lord, his teaching that his methods in clear Focus, we see his love of his people and his methods. We understand the methods.

Went to work when he teach about, it's not about Cora and it's not about Shabbat and he called about love of your enemy. He taught about ritual Purity about giving charity, he taught about righteousness Direction. All of these are important topics to the people with his age. And how did he do it? Classic standard rabbinic methods, he taught in Parables, hearing a person. Tell me what other people other Jewish teacher taught in Parables, so I can do that. The parables are very basic way to do his teachers. Conveyed information course, other people talk in parables.

Can you call the corner light to heavy? He is hyper literalism.

Can use with called Jessica, schiavone? Lincoln passages based on similar words to use pressure, taking a prophetic word and apply it directly to a specific situation. Now, we see those it, the qumran, he's Pastor text hack. Ash, is it similar to guess it's Lincoln by topic, rather than, by word to all these rabbinic patterns of teaching and methods of teaching He is among the stages. Nothing. He's just one of many teachers. No one is saying that because his life and his person is different but he shouldn't be not in India or Russia or China. He should be in. The land of Israel firmly planted among the others who are teaching. Let's look at a couple texts and let's do it by playing a game. The game is who said it. All right.

A little game. Who Sat it on the subject of Shabbat who said it?

The Sabbath is given to you, you're not surrender to the Sabbath.

Well, sounds really close to Jesus.

It's not right, it's right by Simone. Fourth generation, Tana lived about the time. The mission has been codified. So 170. This is reporting themselves of the rubbish MI. Very similar to what you should says. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. If I put these two in parallel, they are so close. They are essentially the exact same saying Sabbath was made for man, not man for Sabbath. Sabbath is given to you you were not surrendered to the Sabbath. Right.

so we have options here, we could say that this later Sage had learned this saying from you, shua, He learned it independently or maybe they learned it both from the same source. We can interpret this in all kinds of different ways.

You sure taught? He taught several times in many places. He talked. That's what he did. He also killed Nelson died raised from the dead, but it wasn't just because of another round of who set it.

On the subject of rebuking others.

If one says to him, take the speck from between your eyes, he'll say to the other. Take the bean from between your eyes. Who said it? So it sounds like Jesus but it's not b, r, a b, r phone in the Babylonian talmud. This is a quote from him. You should have something very similar when you go to judge. Someone, make sure you take the beam out of your own eye. Before you try to take the speck out of his eye, but they are very similar.

We have options here and how to interpret this, I guess you could say. Might our phone is the generation right after you sure.

The mission of stage 4 Priestly family who apparently had a pretty low opinion of Jesus followers.

Maybe they heard the saying from a very common source and they phrased it differently. Our friends from first Fruits of Zion see this actually as your shoes statement being so pervasive and widespread that actually car phone is criticizing how widespread issue a statement is, but like a win-win. A person goes to rebuke someone else. he'll throw Jesus statement at him and say, hey, You got to beam in your own eye. I don't know if that's true but that's how the first Fruits of Zion interprets this.

That your shoes statement became so well-known. People were using it to deflect a review.

You got a speck in your eye, you got a log in your eye to get away from me.

Carphone said, this was the reason that the generation with might come to an end, the world might come to an end because no one knew how to accept or give a review properly. Somebody comes to you to rebuke you and you say, you know, brother, you got your own problems. rather than saying, Maybe there's something here for me to learn. You sure is a teacher last round. Who said it? I could do this all day long, but I can't on the subject of proving the resurrection of the Dead. According to passage, I'm the god of Abraham, the god of Isaac, and the god of Jacob. He is not the god of the dead, but of the living, who said, it, Yeshua said that one don't be shy, don't be shy course. It should have said that in Matthew 22 but it's very similar to what I said. Maybe we can use trying to prove the resurrection from the dead. He also uses hyper literal interpretation of scripture quoting, a he's quoting God. I have establish my Covenant with Ben that is Abraham Isaac and Jacob to give them the land of Canaan. Rob, Yocum. On. Argues he said he would give it to them. It is I was going to give it to you. Therefore they're still alive.

Exact same. Argumentation that he used a really that exact same. Talking about the Patriarchs because he's trying to prove to the Heretics in the talmud, the name in the talmud that there is resurrection from the dead and who are the mini with, you know, how to read the The Talbot who are the mini name, the status. He's basically, they're calling the Sadducees Heretics. Yes. A question or comment.

That the passage is from Donald Glover written before Jesus, right? Because they don't write things down, they passed them orally.

Or is it?

Yeah, because we have it because we have kind of like a void in the rabbinic literature, we don't have many, who can work with it, so we don't run into these passages. Very often are on sale our like, Jesus following movement,

It sure was a grand teacher, he was more than that, but he certainly was a teacher who is in a specific time and place. I tell final story as I close the dr. Lee told me about dr. Who's really big in our in our Scholarship, our way of understanding the Biblical text. Dr. Plooster was a professor at Hebrew University. A student came to his class and sat in the back all semester and Grump and groused.

And he said, I don't know why I have to be here. Every teaching that you're bringing out of Jesus. So said this Orthodox student at Hebrew University? Every teaching of Jesus I can find in the teachings of the Jewish sages. Why do I need to study him? This is a waste of my time. Don't take that from the other angle. Recognizing this class is that the teachings that he hears of Jesus are straight-up teachings that he hears from his ages. Considered from his perspective. Get your shoes more than a teacher. He's also a person who did Miracles. He's also. Son of God for his being the side of the world. But this person is at least recognizing to every teaching. You put me in here, I can find them in the sages. Why do I need him? And loser says, yes you can do that because he's already done it. He already he already laid it out.

Toyota Peterson, like he is a product of the things he heard, but he's also Contributing and adding to. Jewish thought. And you can look at his and his teachings are there. You can look at them and say where they fit. If you know you're looking at because he did it because he said it, you can connect them to others. To me, it's like, Notre Dame brand building. You said, wow, that's that's beautiful. It's Epic. The person is using the same materials. You should thought he had the same materials. Every other teacher, had get the same ideas that were current. Daddy is around annoy. So many ideas have the same ideas. Person working with Notre Dame. He has Stone and he has wood and he has glass and he has metal the same materials. Everybody's working really with the same materials. But he made a grand adasis. His teachings are Grand edifice. A grand building.

Not only his teachings are also. His person is what we dealed in our lives to not just his teachings. He's a great teacher, just in the manner of the other teachers, We Believe know he's different from that. Dispersants when he's done he is and what he's done.

I'm finished here, some hear some bibliography trouble, Elsa fries article that was in Jerusalem perspective. The value of romantic literature as historical source. Hug sub, volume literature of the stages and advise the fry in 87. Two chapters in there, the mishnah by Goldberg. And also the Babylonian talmud by Goldberg. I put this Rabbinic Judaism debunks that Bo have given me many months ago. And I appreciate the book very much. I've read a lot of it and I appreciate it. It's it's interesting because it's kind of answering a question that we don't ask most of us don't yield ourselves to the rabbinic dictates so, I don't really feel like Most of us don't do all the things that they suggested that we do because we don't see them as authoritative and that book kind of walks through this idea. That oral Torah came from Sinai, which they used to, kind of Russell of thorny. What I'm presenting to you is that they are, but one, Of the ways of interpreting. Jewish tax. They are but one little we see in the mission on is not all of Judaism. It was from one strand. It was the first day I could not pass addressed. And not the s-seen, not the Zealot, not the Jesus movement, not the others that we don't know about. It's one that has survived. There are also other passages because we don't work with the literature very much. It's we have to find people that we trust and so Brad young is one that I do trust David. Instone-brewer is one that I trust dr. Lee, of course, it's one that I trust. I have eaten into the question time, but I may take one question and invade it. Like, I always do to move on cuz I don't want to Rob Doug or robbed of any time.

Shorten the brakes, right? I'm willing to answer a question. If there's a question.

Study IQ View.

I was studying archaeology, I wasn't that. I mean, I had in the past been involved in Jewish emissions and got nothing, but I was not there for that purpose at all, consciously avoiding it, but every now and then Orthodox Jewish classmates are students would come up to me with almost, like, well, I'm here to tell you that. You sure may have said that and that's when the child would, but we still don't believe Jesus. And that was, I mean, I'm being paraphrasing acting, but that's not the way they told him. He would essentially, that was the way they respond. It's like, well, I'm study archaeology with Garfunkel in, I mean, Mazar. And I'm not even here to tell you about Jesus, but they had to attack in that sense because they understood that polemic between. So, it's a fascinating perspective that you share that you do really, it doesn't matter. Was it originated with you. She's not correct. That's my question. Is, it didn't originate with your shoe, or were they responding to your shoe at to try and, you know, gloss over issue and I think what you're saying, It doesn't really matter and that's it.

I don't know if there's a way to really answer it to anyone's satisfaction but I'm certain that this picture by 2 so happened. Right. And you she was sitting there and he's teaching His own followers are listening and some little kids have joined into listen and some others have. Decided to listen and like who really knows how far these sayings go. There are few I think Is it Daniel boyfriend says there's one specific halacha that he can find. That's from your shoe in the talmud about what to do with the wages of a prostitute or something like that and He suggests in the talmud suggest that you make a latrine out of them, you know, like, you don't really want to use it for a noble, a noble purpose, but you can use for an ignoble purpose and that might, you know, and Rabbi Eliezer. Any is our last forever. I don't know. Who knows there's conscious avoiding or polemic in some of the among some of the stages towards the Jesus movement? Yes. Avoidance more than anything. All right, it is 10:15. It is a time to take a break. You ready? Steve.