Kings of North and South | Daniel 11:1-35

When I first told one of my mentors that we were considering going through the book of Daniel, I was commenting to him how when you use the proper hermeneutic, all the prophecy stuff is really not as complicated as many make it out to be. He nodded his head in agreement, then made the comment

“Well. Chapter 11 gets a little tricky. Hard to keep all the details straight and track what’s going on”

And then the conversation went on to other things.

Brothers and sisters. He wasn’t lying. One commentator I read said that he had a professor warn his students never to preach this text, because it is just too difficult for people to follow. That particular commentator disagreed with his professor, and I am glad he did. If all Scripture is profitable, let’s find out how!

This is a difficult text just from a tracking standpoint, but I have great confidence in you all today, and I hope I’ve given you sufficient helps that will guide you into further study.

As we get into to the text, I want you to know that I do intend to read through Dan 11:1-35. It is going to feel like a lot of information. It is going to be a little confusing because of lake of personal names. But take heart! I’ve given you a printout of Daniel 11 with added identifications for the people in question. You may not recognize all the names, and that’s okay. If nothing else, it will help you track the development of the kingdoms. As I read through it may be most helpful for you if you follow along on that sheet.

As we read through this I want you to pay special attention to different ways the text will describe something nefarious. Treachery. Betrayal. Assassination. Wrath. Untimely Deaths. etc.

Second, as we read through, pay attention to the focus of the text. We fly through decades of time in the early portions of the text. By the time we get to vs 21-35, time slows waaaay down. Pay attention to the what Daniel seems to emphasize as time slows down.

Daniel 11:1–35 LSB

“Now I, in the first year of Darius the Mede, I stood to strengthen and to be a fortress for him. “So now I will tell you the truth. Behold, three more kings are going to stand in Persia. Then a fourth will gain far more riches than all of them; as soon as he becomes strong through his riches, he will arouse the whole empire against the kingdom of Greece. “And a mighty king will stand, and he will dominate with great domination and do as he pleases. “But as soon as he stands, his kingdom will be broken up and parceled out toward the four winds of heaven, but not to his own descendants, nor according to his domination with which he dominated, for his kingdom will be uprooted and given to others besides them. “Then the king of the South will grow strong, along with one of his princes who will grow strong over him and obtain dominion; indeed, his domain will be a great dominion. “And after some years they will form an alliance, and the daughter of the king of the South will come to the king of the North to carry out an equitable arrangement. But she will not retain her position of power, nor will he continue to stand with his power, but she will be given up, along with those who brought her in and the one who fathered her as well as he who strengthened her in those times. “But one of the descendants of her line will stand in his place, and he will come against their military force and enter the fortress of the king of the North, and he will deal with them and display strength. “And also their gods with their metal images and their desirable vessels of silver and gold he will bring into captivity to Egypt, and he on his part will stand back from attacking the king of the North for some years. “Then the latter will enter the kingdom of the king of the South, but will return to his own land. “And his sons will wage war. So they will gather a multitude of great forces; and one of them will keep on coming and overflow and pass through, that he may again wage war up to his very fortress. “And the king of the South will be enraged and go forth and fight with the king of the North. Then the latter will cause a great multitude to stand, but that multitude will be given into the hand of the former. “Then the multitude will be carried away, his heart will be lifted up, and he will cause tens of thousands to fall; yet he will not prevail. “And the king of the North will again cause a much greater multitude than the former to stand, and at the end of the times of those years, he will keep on coming with a great military force and much equipment. “Now in those times many will stand against the king of the South; the violent ones among your people will also lift themselves up in order to cause the vision to stand, but they will fall down. “Then the king of the North will come, cast up a siege ramp, and capture a well-fortified city; and the might of the South will not stand, not even their choicest troops, for there will be no strength to make a stand. “But he who comes against him will do as he pleases, and no one will be able to stand in opposition to him; he will also stand for a time in the Beautiful Land, with destruction in his hand. “And he will set his face to come with the authority of his whole kingdom, bringing with him an equitable proposal which he will put into effect; he will also give him the daughter of women to destroy it. But she will not take a stand for him or be on his side. “Then he will turn his face to the coastlands and capture many. But a ruler will make his reproach against him cease; moreover, he will repay him for his reproach. “So he will turn his face toward the fortresses of his own land, but he will stumble and fall and be found no more. “Then in his place one will stand who will have an oppressor pass through the Jewel of his kingdom; yet within a few days he will be broken, though not in anger nor in battle. “And in his place a despised person will stand, to whom the splendor of the kingdom has not been given, but he will come in a time of ease and take hold of the kingdom by intrigue. “But the overflowing might will be flooded away before him and broken, and also the prince of the covenant. “And after an alliance is made with him, he will practice deception, and he will go up and gain power with a small force of people. “In a time of ease he will enter the richest parts of the province, and he will do what his fathers never did, nor his fathers’ fathers; he will distribute plunder, spoil, and possessions among them, and he will devise his schemes against strongholds, but only for a time. “And he will stir up his strength and heart against the king of the South with a great military force; so the king of the South will wage war with an extremely large and mighty military force for war; but he will not stand, for schemes will be devised against him. “And those who eat his choice food will break him, and his military force will overflow, but many will fall down slain. “And as for both kings, their hearts will be intent on evil, and they will speak falsehood at the same table; but it will not succeed, for the end is still to come at the appointed time. “Then he will return to his land with great possessions; but his heart will be set against the holy covenant, and he will take action and then return to his own land. “At the appointed time he will return and come into the South, but this last time it will not happen the way it did before. “Indeed, ships of Kittim will come against him; therefore he will be disheartened and will return and become indignant at the holy covenant and take action; so he will come back and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. “Mighty forces from him will stand, profane the sanctuary fortress, and abolish the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation. “And by smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action. “And those who have insight among the people will give understanding to the many; yet they will fall by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plunder for many days. “Now when they fall, they will be granted a little help, and many will join with them in intrigue. “And some of those who have insight will fall, in order to refine, purge, and make them pure until the time of the end, because it is still to come at the appointed time.

For those that don’t have their Ptolemaic and Seleucid history down pat, this text represents a bit of a nightmare.

Some of us I’d be willing to wager don’t even know who the Ptolemies and Seleucids are! Don’t feel bad about that. I’m not sure I’d have much of a grasp with who they were, much less the development of the kingdoms, if I weren’t studying things like this.

On interesting aspect of this text is that it was given to Daniel prior to many of the rulers it mentions were even born. From his vantage point, everything here was future. From our vantage point, everything is historical.

Now...I’ve had to make a decision about to use our time together this morning.

We could walk through this text and discuss what is now history. How the Persian empire gave way to Alexander the Great, how the Greek empire was divided into four upon Alexander’s death, how the Ptolemies and Seleucids fought back and forth.

We could do that.

And there is certainly value in that! In fact, walking through that history does aid our understanding of the significance of Daniel’s prophecy! Here we have yet another example of God giving prophecy hundreds of years before the events and it lines up perfectly! We can have confidence in the Word of God, no matter what the critics may say!

We could walk through that history, but I’m not going to, at least not in incredible detail.

Why?

This always comes back to questions of hermeneutics and our method of study. We want to discover the original author’s intended meaning, and what that means for us.

So in light of that, I had to ask myself, is the detailed historical overview really necessary? Helpful, perhaps, but it cannot be necessary, because the prophecy was given to Daniel at a time when the history was yet future. The spiritual value of this text transcends the historical fulfillment. It was of value to Daniel, and it was of value to the rest of the Jews who lived prior to this, and it was of value to them AS they lived through it, and it remains of value after it has all been fulfilled.

So it must be of spiritual value even if we were never able to identify the historical personages.

We could walk through the fulfilled history and it would be interesting. It is interesting! But we want more than interesting when we are coming to encounter the very Word of God!

The Word of God is living and Active and Sharper than a two-edged sword.

All Scripture is God-Breathed and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness.

What did Daniel, or really the One giving Daniel this prophecy, want the readers to understand? What was their primary takeaway, and how does that inform us in how we live our lives thousands of years later?

Do you remember the things I told you to pay attention to as we read through the text? I told you to pay attention to all the nefarious dealings.

History is incredibly messy. Two kingdoms vying for power, marrying off their daughters to the other in hopes of gaining influence and advantage over the other, stabbing each other in the back, and then a whole host of other things.

It’s messy!

Name a period of time when it wasn’t.

Some of you have read about messy history of the Royal family of England. Other of you may remember us talking about the crazy family of the Herodian Dynasty as we were going through Mark.

Even in our own United States of America if you read about some of the jockeying for power that our founding fathers engaged in among themselves, it becomes very apparent very quickly that history is just messy.

Everyone is doing their best to gain power, only for power to ultimately elude them.

It’s just like Princess Leia said in a New Hope. The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”

This is clearly true for the Ptolemies and Seleucids, and its true everywhere we look in history. No matter how powerful any king become, how dominant his reign....he will still die, and history moves on.

Dale Davis said it best. “The text doesn’t merely want us to hear the racket but to see the futility of it.” (pg 150)

On and on the fights go, round and round, but what does it accomplish? Nothing. Self made kings over self made kingdoms crumble like a paper sack when stabbed in the back. All that fighting, and 99% of people in the world couldn’t name a single Ptolemaic or Seleucid king.

Another commentator notes

“Daniel shows us the fallen world pursuing the wind and finding it elusive. What do power and politics gain for all their toil?” (Iain Duguid, as cited in DRD, 152)

But there is a point to all of this, because even in all the struggle, even in all the back and forth, even in all intrigue and treachery, God is still moving history along the rails of time, He is still guiding it to its appointed end. Three times Daniel uses the language of “appointed time”.

Even through all the raging, there is a moment when God says “enough. You’ve had your fun. Now your time is up” It’s like Psalm 2. Why do the nations rage and the people plot a vain thing?

You sure are making a lot of noise, but accomplishing exactly nothing of your own design. All the while, the grand plan of God awaits it’s appointed time.

There are several points of application that could be made from this.

The Futility of Temporal Power Gives Us Perspective

It helps us gain perspective. The Israelites needed perspective as they were constantly caught in the middle between these two kingdoms. If they had the insight, they could watch the ping pong ball go back and forth and simply knowingly nod recognizing that none of it was going to last.

This is a helpful reminder for us today. We just had an election that was dubbed the most important election in our lifetime. The last time we had an election that big? four years ago. And the time before that? four year prior. And then the last one was just four years before that. I’m not a prophet, nor the son of a prophet, but if my calculations are correct, should the Lord tarry, the next time we will have the most important election of our lifetime will be four years from now.

Presidents come and go. They sign good laws and bad laws. They bring joy to some and sorrow to others. Economic prosperity and hardship. War and peace. Each cycle there is a major fight for control of the house and senate. And for what?

Please hear me, I am by no means suggesting that it doesn’t matter at all or have real life impact.

But we’re talking bigger picture here. When all is said and done, when the history books are finally done being written, and time itself comes to an end. What will all our political maneuverings have accomplished?

This also doesn’t mean that we should detach from participating in the political system.

It does mean that we engage with perspective.

But if we gain the necessary perspective, that despite all the best efforts, the political maneuverings of the kingdoms of men are mere futility, and that despite whatever any human achieves there is the promise that the appointed end will come, if we gain THAT perspective, that will go a long way to curbing our lust for power and political domination. As David says,

Psalm 20:7 LSB

Some boast in chariots and some in horses, But we will boast in the name of Yahweh, our God.

The second thing I urged you to pay attention to as we read through the passage was the slowing down of time as we got closer to the end of vs 35.

With all the political maneuvering going on, it seems like very little has anything to do with Israel except for the last few verses. However, its important to remember the geography here.

The Seleucids are the northern kingdom, from whom come all the Antiochuses.

The Ptolemies are primarily in Egypt and represent the kings of the South.

And look who is sandwiched right between them. Israel. Jerusalem.

God’s people who have returned to the land and have rebuilt the city, they endure there, but do so in times of distress, as Chapter nine mentioned.

Things come to massive head vs 29ff. Antiochus IV is sent packing by the Romans, and he throws a hissy fit, taking out his rage on the Jews. Some will respond with capitulation. They forsake the covenant. Other will stand strong and take action. This describes the Maccabean revolt. Even many of those who do that will suffer greatly. Some will die by sword. Other perhaps are tortured, depending on the meaning of “fall by flame” in vs 33. Others will be taken captive. Others will be plundered.

And yet, even this is intended to have the net effect of refining and purifying the people.

God revealed to Daniel all these details, specifically so that the Jews who were to live through it would have the necessary knowledge to persevere in their faith when things got difficult.

Vs 32 says those who know their God will display strength and stand.

Vs 33 says those who have insight will give understanding to others.

God gave them the playbook. They knew what was coming. They were watching it be fulfilled before their very eyes.

Because of that, many were able to stand strong for truth, even as wickedness seemed to dominate.

Perspective Gives Us Strength

And even those who fell did so because God was purifying his people until an appointed time, which is one more reminder for them…this too shall pass.

As crazy as the world may seem, as awful as the persecution would become, as hard as it would be to stand and fight for truth, we know…we KNOW that God will bring all things together at the appointed time.

NOTHING escapes his notice, nothing is apart from God’s oversight.

And because all that is true, His people can be equipped to stand, even when all the world is against them.

I do encourage you to do a deeper look into the actual history of the battles between these parties. It’s truly fascinating.

As you do so, remember that all those events were foretold, and they all point to the futility of human power struggles. Remember that there is an appointed end to all things. Even our own great nation will endure forever. And remember that just as the Jews could arm themselves with the Word of God, that they could know God, and that they could teach others, so too can we today know God, be armed with the word of God, and seek to teach others the Word of God. And when you do that, you will stand.

The events of these verses set the global stage for the arrival of Jesus Christ just 150ish years later. Even as we get into end times material next week, even that merely sets the stage for the second coming of Christ when he comes to establish his kingdom.

Only those who are trusting in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ will see the glories of that kingdom. All the rest of history is futility. That coming kingdom is the only one that will last.

Those who have insight not only have it because they know the Lord, but they also seek to give understanding to others.

May we be people of insight, especially as we come into this holiday season.