After The Flood Part 2: Noah's Ark and the Flood Debate

What I wanna do is for us to reflect on the flood story as we just experienced it, and to let that re-frame how we come to consider these questions, or at least inform how we come to these questions.

If you don't have, like worked out conviction about this subject that is fine, you don't have to.

Some of you are set and nothing anyone could say will change how you see these passages.

And there is no way we can go through all the theories and the hows and answer all the questions. I think the best think we can do is see where you are at and work on our own to answer these questions.

But at least it's helped to kind of paint the landscape for why people land at the positions that they do and why they think this is an issue worth putting a lot of energy in and why some people think it's not.

This is more of a creating, showing the landscape so that you can go on and do your own learning from here, if you want to or compelled to.

This is a particular debate that has arisen in the modern period, in the last couple century.

And for lots of different reasons, this has become in some Christian subcultures, kind of a pillar issue about... Not just whether you believe in a certain interpretation of the flood, but whether you believe in Jesus or whether you can even call yourself a Christian.

Let's just pause and just name that right there.

That is a mindset of approaching the Christian tradition and the Christian story and faith that actually doesn't have much to do with Bible interpretation.

It has more to do with a mindset of what it looks like to be faithful representatives of Jesus in my culture and time and place.

And what does that include and what does that not need to include?

It's more a debate about that. And certain biblical texts become the activators or the flash points of a debate, which actually isn't technically about Bible interpretation, it's about a boundary line issue in our moment. And this text has raised that issue to the service.

I found that helpful for me, especially when I'm dialogueing with people that we hold different views to realize like this isn't about whether you take Jesus more seriously than I do. We both love Jesus. I wanna follow Him and share the good news about Him and share the story with the world, 'cause I think it's really good news.

People who believe that these texts are the result of both human authors carried along by God's spirit. And that these God Breathed words through human authors.

So that's a conviction that I hold. I looked at these texts to hear a divine word to give me guidance, authoritative guidance for my life.

But people who hold all of that as a conviction can still arrive at different interpretations of a text like this. And so, generosity or what St. Augustine called charity in all things is really, really important in this.

A Global Flood, a Local Flood, or Cosmic Collaps

Use slides but follow words below

1. Global flood: The author knew (by divine inspiration) that the flood immersed the entire globe and depicted it as such.

2. Local flood: The author didn’t know about the scope and size of the globe and so depicted a localized flood as if it encompassed the entire globe.

In the last couple of 100 years, the two camps that have kind of emerged is one camp that it uses the word to describe its reading of the story as the literal reading or the plain meaning.

It's a global flood.

There were waters above and some sort of waters in the atmospheric layer that aren't there anymore.

And there all collapsed and there were subterranean water chambers that exploded, inundated the world. The word, the literal reading or the plain sense meaning is attached to that view.

There are other people who also think that one of the ways that God communicates to people is through our truth.

The Book of Scripture and the Book of Nature as John Locke and Francis Bacon called it.

God reveals himself through two books, 'cause all truth is God's truth.

And so as the history of the fossil record and the history of the geological record, all of this comes to surface. You begin to get conflicting interpretations about the dates, the times, all of this, the mountains.

And so you get other Christians who love Jesus and believe a Bible is God's word and they want to integrate all of that information of coherent interpretation along with the Bible. And so that group gets attached to the phrase, the view called a local flood.

And then there's different hybrids of that group.

And then this group responds by saying, well, but if you view that archaeological or geological data from a different angle, it actually fits with the literal meaning and so on.

This has been going for a long time and it generates a lot of light. But maybe not a lot of heat.

It doesn't generate a lot of illumination into the text as it's designed, which is what we've really been exploring. So I brought up a couple things along the way.

One is about the fact that this is not a local or a global flood. It's the collapse of the cosmos as the biblical authors understood the construction of the cosmos.

So in my mind that actually is the most literal reading because what the authors intended. The authors didn't know about a globe, they knew about the snow globe. And so if I'm gonna honor what the authors were intending to communicate.

Underneath this entire debate is an unexamined problem. The biblical authors did not share our modern cosmology, and the word “land” does not mean globe.

What I also need to account for is the fact that there are characters some that we've talked about, the Nephalem, who appear before the flood. And then when they're introduced, the narrator tells us, "Hey, listen, you're gonna meet them later." And then you meet them later. And they're not the only people who are like that, there's another group that survives right on through.

But you have to reconcile that with the fact of these text that we read all life was extinguished, it's the Genesis 1, list in reverse.

All of this needs to become a part of a comprehensive conversation about all of this. So, I'm gonna recommend some resources and then I'm just gonna walk you through where I am at in a view that makes sense to me, and not just me to a lot of people but it doesn't quite fit at home in either of those camps.

But it's not just a middle way, it's the cosmic collapse way.

And what we're really addressing is what do the biblical authors intend when they use cosmic language, especially when it comes to catastrophes. 'Cause the flood story is not the only story in the Bible that uses cosmic language when it describes catastrophes connected to God's judgment on human evil.

Cosmic Hyperbole and the Flood

I want to honor first of all is that the authors of the flood, I think are literally using the language of cosmic collapse.

The author gives many clear signals that the flood has cosmic significance and affects the entire created realm. The following list is adapted from The Lost World of the Flood by Longman and Walton (2018, 48-49).

God’s perception of humanity in Genesis 6:5-13 includes all humanity, not just those in a local area. They are RA all of the time.

The flood is clearly portrayed as a reversal of the cosmic order that God established in Genesis 1 and then a re-creation similar to Genesis 1. For the analogy to work, the flood is a cosmic re-creation and not simply a local phenomenon.

The collapse of the waters above and below in Genesis 7:11 indicates a cosmic event.

The logic of taking animals on board in pairs, including birds, indicates a cosmic flood not limited to a local area.

The size of the boat indicates a flood of cosmic proportions. It in itself is a miniature cosmos

The height of the waters as 15 cubits (23 feet) above the mountains of Ararat (Gen. 7:20, 8:4) indicates a cosmic flood.

To me this shows that we are supposed to view this a cosmic event

The author’s purpose is to depict a catastrophe of cosmic proportions, which raises an even deeper question.

Do the biblical authors ever use cosmic hyperbole (intentional literary exaggeration) to communicate the cosmic importance and significance of an event but not necessarily its actual universal scope?

The answer is yes.

Biblical authors regularly use hyperbole to communicate the cosmic meaning of an event. In fact, the flood narrative begins an important design pattern about God’s cosmic judgment against humanity’s evil, and we often find the same hyperbole at work

What We are going to do is actually look at two other narratives that are littered with the language of the flood story. (taken from The Bible Project)

There's two patterns I wanna show you. One is the 10 plagues, which is the flood of God's judgment on Egypt and it's all reversal of Genesis 1 language.

The next one, surprising at first but it took a while is the conquest of Canaan under Joshua's leadership. Which is all represented as a flood of divine judgment on the Canaanites. But in this case, it's the Israelite giborim, the Israelite warriors who are the waves of judgment on the Canaanites.

But the point here is that these are two examples that they use the same cosmic totalizing language of the flood narrative while also giving very clear clues that it was an event of cosmic meaning, but not necessarily of cosmic scope.

Cosmic Hyperbole in the Ten Plagues on Egypt

Exodus 7:20–25 LEB

20 And Moses and Aaron did so, as Yahweh had commanded, and he raised the staff and struck the water that was in the Nile before the eyes of Pharaoh and before the eyes of his servants, and all of the water that was in the Nile was changed to blood. 21 And the fish that were in the Nile died, and the Nile stank, and the Egyptians were not able to drink water from the Nile, and the blood was in all the land of Egypt. 22 And the magicians of Egypt did likewise with their secret arts, and Pharaoh’s heart was hard, and he did not listen to them, as Yahweh had spoken. 23 And Pharaoh turned and went to his house, and this also he did not take to heart. 24 And all of the Egyptians dug around the Nile for water to drink, because they were unable to drink from the water of the Nile. 25 And seven days passed after Yahweh struck the Nile.

Think of some of the 10 plagues. The first one is the water turns to blood. Yahweh has control over the waters.

Exodus 10:21–23 CSB

21 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward heaven, and there will be darkness over the land of Egypt, a darkness that can be felt.” 22 So Moses stretched out his hand toward heaven, and there was thick darkness throughout the land of Egypt for three days. 23 One person could not see another, and for three days they did not move from where they were. Yet all the Israelites had light where they lived.

One of the plagues is darkness. And the opening line of that plague is let there be darkness.

Exodus 8:17 CSB

17 And they did this. Aaron stretched out his hand with his staff, and when he struck the dust of the land, gnats were on people and animals. All the dust of the land became gnats throughout the land of Egypt.

Exodus 9:3–6 CSB

3 then the Lord’s hand will bring a severe plague against your livestock in the field—the horses, donkeys, camels, herds, and flocks. 4 But the Lord will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and the livestock of Egypt, so that nothing of all that the Israelites own will die.” 5 And the Lord set a time, saying, “Tomorrow the Lord will do this thing in the land.” 6 The Lord did this the next day. All the Egyptian livestock died, but none among the Israelite livestock died.

It involves all of these different types of animals, flyers, insects, land animals.

Exodus 9:22–25 CSB

22 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward heaven and let there be hail throughout the land of Egypt—on people and animals and every plant of the field in the land of Egypt.” 23 So Moses stretched out his staff toward heaven, and the Lord sent thunder and hail. Lightning struck the land, and the Lord rained hail on the land of Egypt. 24 The hail, with lightning flashing through it, was so severe that nothing like it had occurred in the land of Egypt since it had become a nation. 25 Throughout the land of Egypt, the hail struck down everything in the field, both people and animals. The hail beat down every plant of the field and shattered every tree in the field.

There's raining of hail. Raining, it's the word raining of hail.

Notice how the leading statements about the plague are cosmic in scope (“all the water,” “all the plants”), but they are followed by a qualification that all doesn’t technically mean all: There is still water to drink and there are plants that survived the hail.

Exodus 7:20–25 CSB

20 Moses and Aaron did just as the Lord had commanded; in the sight of Pharaoh and his officials, he raised the staff and struck the water in the Nile, and all the water in the Nile was turned to blood. 21 The fish in the Nile died, and the river smelled so bad the Egyptians could not drink water from it. There was blood throughout the land of Egypt. 22 But the magicians of Egypt did the same thing by their occult practices. So Pharaoh’s heart was hard, and he would not listen to them, as the Lord had said. 23 Pharaoh turned around, went into his palace, and didn’t take even this to heart. 24 All the Egyptians dug around the Nile for water to drink because they could not drink the water from the river. 25 Seven days passed after the Lord struck the Nile.

In the first plague on Egypt. We're told that Moses and Aaron, Moses went up, struck the water of the Nile with the staff and were told that all the water that was in the Nile turned to blood.

The fish died. The Nile became foul. The blood was through all the land of Egypt, cosmic. All the water through all the land.

Then look at the next sentence.

So the Egyptians dug around the Nile for water to drink. Wait, I thought it was not just all the water, but all the land.

But apparently there's one spot out of land where you can still go and get a little bit of water.

This is Hyperbole.

So to say all the land means it was pervasive in it's meaning and significance Yahweh is asserting its authority as cosmic creator. But there was a spot where they could still go get their own water or else they would've all died?

Exodus 8:17 CSB

The plague of the gnats. Aaron strikes the dust and all the dust of the earth became gnats.

So I'm certain that there were a lot of gnats. And if you've ever been in a situation where there's like a cloud of mosquitoes or gnats, this perfectly communicates the feeling of that experience. But does it mean that there was no more dust left.

There's no more dirt?

Exodus 9:3–6 CSB

All of the livestock of Egypt died. But you're going to meet later Kings of Egypt, who later they've... Like the kingdom is there and there's animals and Kings and so on. And so does it...

And also know, even in the context, all of the livestock of Egypt died, but there were livestock for Israel. So all means only of Egypt, not all.

Exodus 9:22–25 CSB

This is the hail. So the hail falls on human and beast and on every plant of the field. The hail struck all that was in the field through all the land of Egypt. Every plant of the field, every plant of Egypt.

Exodus 9:31–32 CSB

31 The flax and the barley were destroyed because the barley was ripe and the flax was budding, 32 but the wheat and the spelt were not destroyed since they are later crops.

Five sentences later, well, actually it was the flax and the barley that got ruined 'cause barley was in bud but the wheat and the spelt weren't ruined 'cause it wasn't time for them to ripen.

So in other words, what all means is, all the ripened plants at that time.

This might seem pedantic, but I'm convinced in this conversation

Exodus 10:21–23 CSB

Thick darkness in all the land of Egypt well, except for the Israelites. And they're in the land of Egypt but...

The literally intended meaning of this cosmic hyperbole is to talk, not about its scope as such, but about its meaning and significance as Yahweh assert his authority as creator.

Cosmic Hyperbole in the Conquest of the Canaanites

After the Israelites passed through the waters of the Jordan, Yahweh asserts his authority over the waters of the Jordan, Parting them, so that they walk through on dry land.

The narrative focuses in slow motion on the fact priests carrying the box through the river.

Joshua 3:13 CSB

13 When the feet of the priests who carry the ark of the Lord, the Lord of the whole earth, come to rest in the Jordan’s water, its water will be cut off. The water flowing downstream will stand up in a mass.”

It focuses on they're supposed to go first. And what we're told in Joshua 3:13, is that, "The priests carrying the ark "when the soul of their feet rested "on the waters, the rivers parted." When the soul of their foot Noach.

Do you remember that odd little phrase about the dove, that Noah send it out and it could find nowhere for its the soul of its foot to Noah.

And that was Noah's test.

This is like not a common phrase in the Hebrew Bible.

So now here are the priests dressed in white, yeah. And they become a way of testing and the moment the soul of... It's copy and paste. The soul of their foot rests on the waters, then Yahweh does His thing. So we're reactivating the flood. He is got power over the waters.

So what's gonna happen then, they're gonna cross the river and then they're gonna meet the first city Jericho.

And they're a March around the city of Jericho, how many days?

Seven.

Seven days.

Think of the story, they're supposed to March around the city and blow their horns once for six days.

Then on the seventh day, march around seven times below the horn, seven times.

And then Yahweh provides for his people.

Story after that is about how God provide for his people on the seventh day. But there's one guy named trouble. And what he does, is he goes into the city and he sees some Gold and he sees a Babylonian cloak, a Tov one and he desires it and he took it.

And then his sin brings defeat on all of the people.

So in other words, the whole is we're walking through Genesis 1 through 11.

So as you follow the hyperlinks by the time you get to where they're going into the land and beginning to conquer Canaanites Kings and so on you're to the replaying to the flood moment.

But the surprise in this iteration is that the Israelites are the waves of divine justice.

And so one by one, you're gonna read in these stories. They're some of the most disturbing lines for modern readers where you're told that, "And there was not one remaining." It says it almost every battle account.

Do you remember in the flood story when the flood waves come, when they govar, when they're might on the land and then the end of that little line paragraph was, "And Noah alone remained and those with him."

So now it's inverted.

And there no one remained except the remnant that's being faithful 'cause... Now that raises all kinds of other questions that we don't have time to talk about right now.

So my point is simply the conquest narrative is presented as another flood.

So what would I expect to find? What kind of language would I expect to find in these narratives?

So I'll just show you. And I really am trying, my only agenda is to understand the texts on their own terms. I'm trying to check agenda at the door

Joshua 10:39 NASB95

39 He captured it and its king and all its cities, and they struck them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed every person who was in it. He left no survivor. Just as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir and its king, as he had also done to Libnah and its king.

Joshua struck all the land and all their Kings. He left no remnant. It's that same word as Noah. Everything that had breath, do you remember that from the flood story? All these Kings at one time, there's no uncertain terms here.

Joshua 11:16–17 CSB

16 So Joshua took all this land—the hill country, all the Negev, all the land of Goshen, the foothills, the Arabah, and the hill country of Israel with its foothills—17 from Mount Halak, which ascends to Seir, as far as Baal-gad in the Valley of Lebanon at the foot of Mount Hermon. He captured all their kings and struck them down, putting them to death.

Joshua 11, Joshua took all the land, all that land, all their Kings.

Joshua 11:23 CSB

23 So Joshua took the entire land, in keeping with all that the Lord had told Moses. Joshua then gave it as an inheritance to Israel according to their tribal allotments. After this, the land had rest from war.

11:23, Joshua took all the land.

Joshua 13:1–5 NASB95

1 Now Joshua was old and advanced in years when the Lord said to him, “You are old and advanced in years, and very much of the land remains to be possessed. 2 “This is the land that remains: all the regions of the Philistines and all those of the Geshurites; 3 from the Shihor which is east of Egypt, even as far as the border of Ekron to the north (it is counted as Canaanite); the five lords of the Philistines: the Gazite, the Ashdodite, the Ashkelonite, the Gittite, the Ekronite; and the Avvite 4 to the south, all the land of the Canaanite, and Mearah that belongs to the Sidonians, as far as Aphek, to the border of the Amorite; 5 and the land of the Gebalite, and all of Lebanon, toward the east, from Baal-gad below Mount Hermon as far as Lebo-hamath.

Two chapters later.

"Now Joshua was old and advanced in years "when Yahweh said to him you're quite old "and advanced in years, "and very much of the land remains to be possessed."

And this has been a famous interpretive problem in the book of Joshua, it's like, what seems like a total conquest. And then the rest of the book is gonna go on to say, now there's still a lot of land left to take, So watch out for the Canaanites. And you're like, I thought I just read about them.

So you have to solve either this author doesn't know how to write a coherent story or the way he uses language is different than my culture has taught me to read the Bible.

“A Bible atlas will show visually that this description encompasses quite a bit of land. Indeed a rough estimate would place the success level at around 50 percent ... In addition, there were some important cities said to be taken by Israel that remained firmly in the hands of Canaanites, most notably Jerusalem and Hebron (see Josh. 12:10). According to Judges chapter 1, the situation did not change dramatically even after the death of Joshua ( Judg. 1:1), where we hear that Israel had not defeated large swaths of Canaanite territory ... The author is intentionally using universalistic language and intends to convey rhetorically that the conquest was complete. However, this completeness did not correspond to the actual geographical scope of the conquest, but to the significance of the conquest. The use of hyperbole serves to make the theological point ... We recognize that some will have difficulty with the presence of hyperbole in Scripture, even if it is obvious as we have seen in Joshua. Our point is that the biblical authors sometimes use hyperbole ... in a way that they expected their readers to recognize ... as a convention for making theological claims.” Longman, T. and Walton, J. H. (2018). Debate." IVP Academic. 32-33.

Also, there are cities that are said to have been captured by the Israelites, but later on in the story we find these cities in Canaanite possession

Joshua 8:17–19 CSB

17 Not a man was left in Ai or Bethel who did not go out after Israel, leaving the city exposed while they pursued Israel. 18 Then the Lord said to Joshua, “Hold out the javelin in your hand toward Ai, for I will hand the city over to you.” So Joshua held out his javelin toward it. 19 When he held out his hand, the men in ambush rose quickly from their position. They ran, entered the city, captured it, and immediately set it on fire.

They emptied the city and were told, that there was no human that didn't leave Ai or Bethel to go out to fight Israelites. And then the Israelites win the war, they enter the city, capture it, set it on fire.

Judges 1:22–25 CSB

22 The house of Joseph also attacked Bethel, and the Lord was with them. 23 They sent spies to Bethel (the town was formerly named Luz). 24 The spies saw a man coming out of the town and said to him, “Please show us how to get into town, and we will show you kindness.” 25 When he showed them the way into the town, they put the town to the sword but released the man and his entire family.

In judges chapter one, Bethel is all of a sudden full of candidates again. And they have to fight it all over again and conquer it.

Joshua 10:36–39 CSB

36 Next, Joshua and all Israel with him went up from Eglon to Hebron and attacked it. 37 They captured it and struck down its king, all its villages, and everyone in it with the sword. He left no survivors, just as he had done at Eglon. He completely destroyed Hebron and everyone in it. 38 Finally, Joshua turned toward Debir and attacked it. And all Israel was with him. 39 He captured it—its king and all its villages. They struck them down with the sword and completely destroyed everyone in it, leaving no survivors. He treated Debir and its king as he had treated Hebron and as he had treated Libnah and its king.

In Joshua 10, we're told that the towns of Hebron and Debir were struck all of its cities, all the people, no survivor, every person, all the cities, every person.

Joshua 15:13–17 CSB

13 He gave Caleb son of Jephunneh the following portion among the descendants of Judah based on the Lord’s instruction to Joshua: Kiriath-arba (that is, Hebron; Arba was the father of Anak). 14 Caleb drove out from there the three sons of Anak: Sheshai, Ahiman, and Talmai, descendants of Anak. 15 From there he marched against the inhabitants of Debir, which used to be called Kiriath-sepher, 16 and Caleb said, “Whoever attacks and captures Kiriath-sepher, I will give my daughter Achsah to him as a wife.” 17 So Othniel son of Caleb’s brother, Kenaz, captured it, and Caleb gave his daughter Achsah to him as a wife.

Five chapter later, Caleb is given possession of the town of Hebron and Debir. And he has to go fight a bunch of giants there. And he has to fight against the inhabitants of the city of Debir.

So we're in identical territory now.

As the Nephalem that appear before and after.

Genesis 6:4 CSB

4 The Nephilim were on the earth both in those days and afterward, when the sons of God came to the daughters of mankind, who bore children to them. They were the powerful men of old, the famous men.

Numbers 13:31–33 CSB

31 But the men who had gone up with him responded, “We can’t attack the people because they are stronger than we are!” 32 So they gave a negative report to the Israelites about the land they had scouted: “The land we passed through to explore is one that devours its inhabitants, and all the people we saw in it are men of great size. 33 We even saw the Nephilim there—the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim! To ourselves we seemed like grasshoppers, and we must have seemed the same to them.”

And the Nephalem aren't the only one.

Genesis 4:17–21 CSB

17 Cain was intimate with his wife, and she conceived and gave birth to Enoch. Then Cain became the builder of a city, and he named the city Enoch after his son. 18 Irad was born to Enoch, Irad fathered Mehujael, Mehujael fathered Methushael, and Methushael fathered Lamech. 19 Lamech took two wives for himself, one named Adah and the other named Zillah. 20 Adah bore Jabal; he was the first of the nomadic herdsmen. 21 His brother was named Jubal; he was the first of all who play the lyre and the flute.

The line of Cain appears on the other side of the flood.

Do you remember when Cain is introduced and were told of some grandchildren that he has. And were told that Lamech, Cain's great, great, great, great grandson had three kids. Jabal, Jubal, Tubal-Cain.

And we're told that Jabal, he's the father of everybody who lives in tents implication even to this day.

From the narrative point of view. and you're like, wait a minute, if they all died in the flood, new people would've had to invent living tents.

If Jubal was the father of everyone who plays music, how?

Genesis 15:18–19 CSB

18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “I give this land to your offspring, from the Brook of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates River: 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites,

And all throughout the story of the rest, after the flood in Genesis, in Numbers, in the book of Judges, you get people called Cainites.

So the Nephalem aren't alone in this, but it's an exact parallel to these towns that have no Canaanites and then all of a sudden Canaanites again.

What this view is not saying is that the biblical authors meant one thing, but we in light of knowledge of the fossil record and this think that it really means a different thing.

Do you see that's not what this views saying. What we're saying is, "The biblical authors "have a sophisticated handle on how language works. "And they use cosmic language "specifically at moments in the pattern "when they want to talk about Yahweh's cosmic authority "to bring his purposes in heaven on earth, "and that his purposes are worked out completely "as he intends them in all of these flood-like judgements."

Otherwise have to attribute incompetence to these authors.

Well, maybe you don't have to. That seems likely to me. As a conclusion that you have to consider, if you don't consider the fact that they could use hyperbole.

So in my mind, this is a compelling account of the cosmic language of the flood.

I hold it with an open hand.Wow.But it's compelling to me.

What this has nothing to speak to necessarily is the issue of... Well, what actually happened?

The Historicity of the Flood Narrative

Was there an actual flood?

And here, I think we have to go to these five Mesopotamian flood accounts that span 1800 years.

And to me that's compelling to say there was a catastrophic event that happened in that region.

There is also evidence of occasional catastrophic floods. In the work of William Ryan and Walter Pitman (Noah’s Flood: The New Scientific Discoveries About an Event That Changed History, 2000), they describe a flood that would date to around 5,600 B.C.E. that explains the geological shape of the divide between eastern Europe and Anatolia (modern day Turkey) and the origins of the Black Sea.

And that the biblical authors have adapted the story passed down in Mesopotamian tradition but then they're also using it as a piece to do heavy duty theological

So it's kind of like, I believe in a literal flood that it really happened to a real group of people. Where else did the story come from?

The difference would be there seems to have been a core memory of a particularly catastrophic flood in that region. How else would you explain its unique kind of like dissemination to different cities and cultures and scribble traditions but openly in one section. There's flood stories all over the world but these five witnesses that we have are so similar in so many details, they come from some common ancestor.

But the language and design of the story and the purpose it serves is different than how the literal role reading camp, right? The global flood would go.

And so it's kind of this view lives in its own kind of space.

So the analogy is more that there's a common memory of this thing that happened and that memory has been interpreted in different ways, resulting in different versions of the story.

Who here as seen the movie Jaws?

Who here has read the book?

In the book the shark is a just what brings the story together. In the Movie its the main character. When we ask the question how did this happen, Global or local, Green house event, Global warming, Ice age ending, volcanic eruption whatever… We are making the flood the main character, but in the Bible God is the main character and the flood is a vehicle for us to seek Gods Cosmic disorder and reordering as he turns us over to the desires of our hearts. as he responds to us and our failure to rule in the wisdom he has been teaching us.

The flood has a meaning and the meaning of the flood is what the author is working really hard in the narrative to communicate.

And the meaning is that it's God asserting his cosmic authority to hand creation over to its own self destruction. And it's the inversion of God's creative authority to sustain creation, yeah. So it's a statement about God's sovereignty as the creator, which isn't just true on a cosmic scale. It's also true in the life of a particular community. It's true in the lives of individuals.

The meaning of the flood story is about God asserting his cosmic authority to hand creation over to its own self-destruction. The biblical authors use cosmic language to make a statement about God’s sovereignty as creator. - Tim Mackie

Tim Points out the story of the conflict between Rachel and Leah.

And they're having this like this like contest of who can have more kids. That narrative is riddled with flood vocabulary. And it's within one family, two sisters are driving themselves into shame and dishonor and conflict through jealousy. Siblings that jealous of one another, who are causing what God sees as cosmic disturbance in their family. And so at the end, God remembers Rachel and he opens the door of her womb.

And so, that too is a cosmic moment, but it's a local moment that has cosmic significance. And so the language of the flood is used to tell that story. And so it's things like that that may... and same with like the conquest of Canaan. And that make me think it's the meaning of these flood like judgment that the author really wants us to get.

I recommend John Walton and Tremper Longman work.

The Lost World of the Flood: Mythology, Theology, and the Deluge Debate Tremper Longman IIIJohn H. Walton

A classic statement of a global flood that also aligns with a young earth creation view. It's good to familiarize yourself with kind of the best presentation of different arguments is a work called,

The Genesis Flood: The Biblical Record and its Scientific Implications Henry Morris, John Whitcomb

It was written back at, I believe in the '70s. There's lots of people who hold this view, especially in America. And so it's good to become familiar with it.

Noah's Flood: The New Scientific Discoveries About the Event that Changed History William Ryan,Walter Pitman

Two geologists, William Ryan and Walter Pitman, who started getting interested into the geological formation of that mountain range that I showed you where in Mount Ararat, between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. And this is just a very insufficient summary. They think all the evidence points to a flood, a catastrophic flood that created the black sea. And that explains all kinds of features that would've dated to pre-historic times in terms of before even the invention of writing around 5,600 B.C. Because where the people who settled in the Mesopotamian region, like many of their legends and stories point to a migration precisely from that region.

And so it makes all the sense in the world that a memory of a catastrophic flood from that region that in many ways also created the Mesopotamian Delta.

So they aren't saying that's the flood therefore, what they're saying is this stuff happens. There's a way to account for why these five flood stories would survive in this region and how the biblical version can...

And I just encourage you to... If this is an issue for you, just do your own learning and develop your own view

but let's just remind ourselves to love our neighbor as ourselves and to hold things with an open hand and just to continue to keep learning.

This is an insufficient treatment of a much more complex debate, but I just wanted to lay the landscape and put my cards on the table at the same time.

Noah’s Garden and a Family Failure

Bibliography

https://bibleproject.com/classroom/noah-to-abraham

Smith, George (1873). The Chaldean Account of the Deluge (2). Transactions of the Society of Biblical Archaeology. 213-34.

Wenham, Gordon J. Genesis 1-15: word Biblical Commentary, Volume 1. Word Publishing, 1987.

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/8867/who-were-the-sons-of-god-bene-elohim-in-genesis-62

Heiser, Michael (2017). Reversing Hermon: Enoch, The Watchers, and the Forgotten Mission of Jesus Christ. Defender.

Annus, Amar (2010). “On the Origin of Watchers: A Comparative Study of the Antediluvian Wisdom in Mesopotamian and Jewish Traditions." Journal for the Study of the Pseudepigrapha, Volume 19.4. 277-320.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/01/noahs-ark-was-circular

Tremper Longman III, John H. Walton, et al. The Lost World of the Flood: Mythology, Theology, and the Deluge Debate

Gilgamesh subduing a lion, Louvre museum Darafsh [CC BY-SA 3.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0)], from Wikimedia Commons

Heiser, Michael S. The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible. First Edition. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2015.

Bible Study

**Noah's Ark and the Flood Debate: 3-Day Bible Study**

### **Overview:**

This study is designed to help participants explore the themes, interpretation challenges, and broader biblical patterns related to Noah’s Ark and the flood narrative. It builds on the material taught in class, encouraging students to reflect on Scripture deeply, examine different perspectives, and grow in their understanding of God’s Word.

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### **Day 1: Understanding the Debate**

**Title:** *What’s at Stake? Faith, Interpretation, and Charity*

**Focus Passage:** Genesis 6:5-22

#### **Opening Reflection:**

- Why do debates like the one about the flood story generate such strong feelings among Christians?

- How do we balance a commitment to Scripture with humility and charity toward other interpretations?

#### **Reading & Questions:**

1. Read **Genesis 6:5-22**. Consider how God’s response to human wickedness and His instructions to Noah reveal His character.

- What stands out to you about God’s justice and grace in this passage?

- How does the description of the ark as a means of salvation resonate with the larger story of Scripture?

2. Reflect on the global vs. local flood debate and the concept of "cosmic collapse."

- Why is it important to recognize that the biblical authors operated within their understanding of the cosmos?

- How can understanding hyperbole in Scripture help us avoid unnecessary division?

#### **Application:**

- How can you approach interpretive disagreements with generosity and humility in your daily conversations?

- Pray for unity among believers and wisdom in studying God’s Word.

---

### **Day 2: Cosmic Hyperbole in Biblical Judgment**

**Title:** *Patterns of Cosmic Language*

**Focus Passage:** Exodus 7:14-24 (The First Plague)

#### **Opening Reflection:**

- How do you usually interpret dramatic language in Scripture?

- Why might biblical authors use hyperbolic or cosmic language to describe events?

#### **Reading & Questions:**

1. Read **Exodus 7:14-24** (The first plague: water turning to blood).

- How does this passage echo the flood story in Genesis?

- What clues indicate the use of hyperbole in describing the plague’s scope?

2. Compare the narrative to the flood.

- How does the flood narrative shape the understanding of God's authority over creation in both stories?

- What does the hyperbolic language teach about God’s power and judgment?

#### **Application:**

- Reflect on how you view God’s sovereignty over nature and history.

- Praise God for His authority and for His grace in providing salvation amidst judgment.

---

### **Day 3: Flood Patterns in Joshua’s Conquest**

**Title:** *Replaying the Flood Narrative*

**Focus Passage:** Joshua 3:9-17; 6:1-21

#### **Opening Reflection:**

- How does seeing the flood echoed in later biblical narratives deepen your understanding of Scripture’s unity?

- What does the conquest of Canaan reveal about God’s justice and mercy?

#### **Reading & Questions:**

1. Read **Joshua 3:9-17** and **Joshua 6:1-21**.

- How does the imagery of crossing the Jordan river recall the flood narrative?

- In what ways does the conquest of Jericho reflect a flood-like act of judgment?

2. Reflect on the language used in these passages.

- How does the "all" language in these stories compare to the flood and the plagues?

- What is the significance of God’s people being used as instruments of judgment?

#### **Application:**

- Consider the weight of God’s justice and how it leads to His mercy. How does this challenge or encourage your faith?

- Pray for wisdom to see how God is at work, even in the challenging parts of Scripture.

---

### **Conclusion:**

This study invites you to wrestle with deep truths about God, Scripture, and how we interpret His Word. As you reflect on the flood narrative and its echoes throughout Scripture, remember that the ultimate story points to Christ, who bore judgment to bring us life.

#### **Suggested Further Reading:**

- *The Lost World of the Flood* by Tremper Longman III and John Walton

- *The Bible Project’s Podcast Episodes on the Flood*

Take time to continue your exploration, allowing these truths to shape your understanding and deepen your faith.

Here’s a concise and engaging YouTube description for your class on "Noah’s Ark and the Flood Debate":

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Youtube description

🌊 **Noah's Ark and the Flood Debate** 🌍

Dive into one of the most fascinating and debated narratives in the Bible! This class explores the story of Noah’s Ark and the Flood, examining different interpretations:

- Was it a **global flood**, a **local flood**, or a **cosmic collapse**?

- How do we reconcile the **biblical text** with modern science and history?

- What role does **cosmic hyperbole** play in understanding this story and others, like the Ten Plagues and the conquest of Canaan?

Learn how faithful Christians can hold differing views on this topic and why generosity and humility in dialogue are key. We'll uncover the deeper meanings of the text, its literary design, and its significance in pointing to God’s ultimate justice and redemption.

📖 **Want to go deeper?** Follow up with our Bible Study guide and discover how these themes connect across Scripture.

👍 **Like, comment, and share** to join the discussion!

🔔 **Subscribe** for more classes exploring the Bible and faith!

#NoahsArk #FloodDebate #BibleStudy #Christianity #BiblicalInterpretation #CosmicHyperbole

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