line of thought on Hebrews 5 questions

Texts

Hebrews 5 ESV

1 For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness. 3 Because of this he is obligated to offer sacrifice for his own sins just as he does for those of the people. 4 And no one takes this honor for himself, but only when called by God, just as Aaron was. 5 So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”; 6 as he says also in another place, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.” 7 In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. 9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, 10 being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek. 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

Psalm 2 ESV

1 Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord and against his Anointed, saying, 3 “Let us burst their bonds apart and cast away their cords from us.” 4 He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision. 5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his fury, saying, 6 “As for me, I have set my King on Zion, my holy hill.” 7 I will tell of the decree: The Lord said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you. 8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. 9 You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.” 10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. 11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Exegete of Psalm 2

-Peoples are aligning themselves against The Lord and His anointed (david)

-God in heaven laughs at them

-there is a declaration and prophecy that “His” king is set on Zion (in a permanent sense)

-This one understands that he is begotten of the God and God offers him the nations.

-This one can do as he pleases to the nations.

-This one has the power to judge.

-The nations should bow down to him.

-This son will take care of those who trust in him.

Word Biblical commentary places Psalm 2 as a declaration decree that would have been read and given to the King at a Coronation Service. If thats true, this would most likely be Nathan or a prophet giving it to David. General interpretation principle is to try to take most literal interpretation of a text unless you have good reason to such as another passage interpretes it differently.

Heres the line of reason.

-Psalm 2 and 2 Samuel 7:14 are very similar and could be this same instance of the Coronation of David.

-These two passages place the son begotten of God within the world of David (and possibly Israel) as the son(s) of God, then Solomon in 2 Samuel 7 where God is bringing about an eternal kingdom from them.

-Our passage of interpretation are both Hebrews 5 and Acts 13. They are adding a new meaning to the original passage. If this is you or me, its wrong. If its the word of God, we go with the word of God.

-This places Jesus as this one that will come and reign eternally on the throne.

-One must decide to take the begotten part literal or spiritual at this point. There is not a lot of clear guidance on which route to take. My notes for this are at the end.

Other uses of the phrase

Acts 13:26–36 ESV

26 “Brothers, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to us has been sent the message of this salvation. 27 For those who live in Jerusalem and their rulers, because they did not recognize him nor understand the utterances of the prophets, which are read every Sabbath, fulfilled them by condemning him. 28 And though they found in him no guilt worthy of death, they asked Pilate to have him executed. 29 And when they had carried out all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb. 30 But God raised him from the dead, 31 and for many days he appeared to those who had come up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses to the people. 32 And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers, 33 this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second Psalm, “ ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you.’ 34 And as for the fact that he raised him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, he has spoken in this way, “ ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.’ 35 Therefore he says also in another psalm, “ ‘You will not let your Holy One see corruption.’ 36 For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep and was laid with his fathers and saw corruption,

Hebrews 1:5 ESV

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?

What this means?

-Jesus was begotten

Definition of begotten

A Dictionary of the Bible: Dealing with Its Language, Literature, and Contents Including the Biblical Theology, Volumes I–V Begotten

BEGOTTEN.—Only begotten is the trn in AV and RV of μονογενής at To 8:17,

Only begotten is “one and only”

Begotten is to produce a child

hebrew - Begat 3205 - used of the geneologies in OT - means to produce a child - hebrew is yalad

also used in Psalm 2:7

Greek - Begotten 1080 - to give birth or born

I have notes on the end that deal with the logical conclusions

-Jesus was born physically.

Matthew 1:18 ESV

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.

-Jesus was not born spiritually in the same sense that a man is born physically, nor was he created or made

John 1:1 ESV

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:3 ESV

3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

-He was of the same essense of God, yet not the same person. We see Jesus designate this other person of God as Father.

John 5:17 ESV

17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

-This other person, Father, refers to Jesus as son.

Matthew 3:17 ESV

17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

-As a human, there was something missing in his final process of becoming the Perfect High Priest (God-Man)

Hebrews 5:7–10 ESV

7 In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. 9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, 10 being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 2:10 ESV

10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering.

-Schreiner says this is not a process of becoming officially (perfectly) God or officially (perfectly) man but is very specific to becoming high priest.

he was not ready to take on high priest until he grew up, suffered, and died perfectly.

so God (Trinity or Father) had designated this process and he perfectly fulfilled it.

-Jesus is labeled the “official”, final High Priest

Hebrews 4:14 ESV

14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.

Hebrews 5:5 ESV

5 So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”;

-We do not know when the priesthood officially started

Hebrews 1:3 hints that maybe it started when he was sacrificed, in some twisted act of being the sacrifice and being the priest.

His death was certainly not accidental and ultimately of His and God (trinitys) own doing, although he did not commit suicide.

Kidner (commentary on Psalm 2) says that the reference in Acts 13 places the resurrection as this final act of becoming the king of Psalm 2 and the High Priest of Makelzidek in Hebrews.

-Why would the writer of Hebrews quote Psalm 2:7?

Psalm 2:7 ESV

7 I will tell of the decree: The Lord said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.

This passage is talking about a King that has been set on a permanent throne, is begotten of God, and has the power to judge the nations and protect those who trust in him.

The writer of Hebrews also quotes this passage in chapter 1.

Hebrews 1:1–4 ESV

1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

-This son is God’s final word for now

-once again appointed over all things

-created the world

-is the external seen waves of God’s (trinity or Father) glory

-exact imprint of his nature

-same as idea of logo in Colossians

-visual part of God (that which can be physically seen)

-same substance and essense of the bigger “God”

-Power over everything

-became superior to angels and inherited this excellent name

-was he not before?

-Schreiner says that any “becoming” that happens or is described is this process of proving the God-Man is as superior now as he was when he was solely God prior to incarnation.

Hebrews 1:5–10 ESV

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”? 6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” 7 Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;

So once again what does this mean?

Jesus is in some sense the first born as compared to other humans

-He is their big brother

-He carries the safety responsibility and the inheritance responsibility for the rest of us.

Jesus was physically begotten on Earth in incarnation.

Jesus was spiritually begotten in some way as well. (its hard to deny this fact from Scripture)

-The definition of begotten is significant. Does it just mean physical birth or does it mean more?

-Either way, based on scripture we can eliminate a few things that are impossible to be meant when the authors use begotten.

-This can not involve being created - John 1

-This has to mean he is of the exact glory and essence as the Father - Colossians and Hebrews 1

-There is some difference between Father and Son, but I have no clue how that could happen otherwise.

-Anytime cults have tried to explain this, they have landed on human consumation between God and either a earthly woman or heavenly woman. -This is heresy.

-I land on that begotten refers more to the essence (for us DNA make up) of Jesus as compared to the Father, than some process of replication.

-I refuse to say the Father had spiritual intercourse with a woman to have Jesus.

-I also refuse to say the Father genetically replicated himself and split into two persons (Father and Son), then did it again for Holy Spirit like a spiritual virus of sorts. This is slippery slope thinking.

-Spurgeon (commentary on Psalm 2) says its either a reference or prophecy of Jesus’ incarnation birth or its something else that we should not walk down to try to understand because it leads to bad places to understand unknown things of God without proper revelation and only on speculation.

By living the life he did and the death he did, he legitimized (perfected) his priesthood to be able to provide atonement for the rest of the family

-This means the only thing that was lacking of perfection for Jesus was proving he was who he claimed to be.

-This means Jesus was in a sense “Imperfect.” We can’t get around this fact. What does that mean though?

-Does this mean he was only imperfect in a physical earthly priest sense or eternally imperfect?

-I would argue that it is only in an earthly sense.

-God wanted him to go through the proper steps to prove he was worthy to be the Perfect High Priest for all to see.

-And has to do with the humbling that we see in Philippians 2:7, and was so that everyone else would know what the trinity already knew.

Philippians 2:7 ESV

7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

-Some students of the bible are comfortable saying Jesus was capable of sin or imperfection before He proved himself. I am not one of these.

-I stand that it is a paradox (i am much more comfortable standing on the idea that there is more information about the topic that we need to know to understand it, then to bow to pressure from a sceptic and say that God could be imperfect. Even the idea of the Father limited the Son’s perfectness when he was incarnated is problematic for me.

-I do not think Jesus was capable of sinning, and that while this process of Him on earth was not arbitraty, it was only for our benefit so that at the final judgment, no one can say that God skipped a step, and can only say, Look at this How God figured out a way to save sinners and punish sin (His name in Exodus as revealed to Moses)

Exodus 34:5–7 ESV

5 The Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord. 6 The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children’s children, to the third and the fourth generation.”

2 Samuel 7 ESV

1 Now when the king lived in his house and the Lord had given him rest from all his surrounding enemies, 2 the king said to Nathan the prophet, “See now, I dwell in a house of cedar, but the ark of God dwells in a tent.” 3 And Nathan said to the king, “Go, do all that is in your heart, for the Lord is with you.” 4 But that same night the word of the Lord came to Nathan, 5 “Go and tell my servant David, ‘Thus says the Lord: Would you build me a house to dwell in? 6 I have not lived in a house since the day I brought up the people of Israel from Egypt to this day, but I have been moving about in a tent for my dwelling. 7 In all places where I have moved with all the people of Israel, did I speak a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd my people Israel, saying, “Why have you not built me a house of cedar?” ’ 8 Now, therefore, thus you shall say to my servant David, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts, I took you from the pasture, from following the sheep, that you should be prince over my people Israel. 9 And I have been with you wherever you went and have cut off all your enemies from before you. And I will make for you a great name, like the name of the great ones of the earth. 10 And I will appoint a place for my people Israel and will plant them, so that they may dwell in their own place and be disturbed no more. And violent men shall afflict them no more, as formerly, 11 from the time that I appointed judges over my people Israel. And I will give you rest from all your enemies. Moreover, the Lord declares to you that the Lord will make you a house. 12 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men, 15 but my steadfast love will not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever.’ ” 17 In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan spoke to David. 18 Then King David went in and sat before the Lord and said, “Who am I, O Lord God, and what is my house, that you have brought me thus far? 19 And yet this was a small thing in your eyes, O Lord God. You have spoken also of your servant’s house for a great while to come, and this is instruction for mankind, O Lord God! 20 And what more can David say to you? For you know your servant, O Lord God! 21 Because of your promise, and according to your own heart, you have brought about all this greatness, to make your servant know it. 22 Therefore you are great, O Lord God. For there is none like you, and there is no God besides you, according to all that we have heard with our ears. 23 And who is like your people Israel, the one nation on earth whom God went to redeem to be his people, making himself a name and doing for them great and awesome things by driving out before your people, whom you redeemed for yourself from Egypt, a nation and its gods? 24 And you established for yourself your people Israel to be your people forever. And you, O Lord, became their God. 25 And now, O Lord God, confirm forever the word that you have spoken concerning your servant and concerning his house, and do as you have spoken. 26 And your name will be magnified forever, saying, ‘The Lord of hosts is God over Israel,’ and the house of your servant David will be established before you. 27 For you, O Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, have made this revelation to your servant, saying, ‘I will build you a house.’ Therefore your servant has found courage to pray this prayer to you. 28 And now, O Lord God, you are God, and your words are true, and you have promised this good thing to your servant. 29 Now therefore may it please you to bless the house of your servant, so that it may continue forever before you. For you, O Lord God, have spoken, and with your blessing shall the house of your servant be blessed forever.”