Romans 8:18-39 Qs

Question Time

Wordless groans

Cannot be Charismatic speaking in tongues (CSIT):

Speaking in tongues in the NT is not speaking in angelic heavenly languages as some claim (the only biblical evidence is very weak) but speaking in different languages, as Acts 2 makes very clear.

Because CSIT is supposed to be speaking in a heavenly language - if that is the case (which I would debate) then wordless groans couldn’t apply, since it’s wordless - it’s not a linguistic activity.

The Spirit is interceding - Paul is emphatic here that it’s the Spirit who is at work groaning, not us. I do think we are involved in our hearts (since Paul goes on to mention that) but not audibly…

…Because the groaning mentioned isn’t audible groans, since Paul has used this groaning language to talk about all creation (v22, it would be silly to think that creation is all together letting out an audible groan), and also us inwardly (v23).

1 Cor 12:30 says that speaking in tongues doesn’t belong to all - but v26 is applying this to all believers

New creation or re-creation

Two sides:

some think that this world will be re-created (cleansed, refined, and presented perfected) by God (which this passage sounds a bit like)

Others think that this world will be completely destroyed and a new creation will be made in it’s place

This is important, because it has implications about what might be brought from this life into the next.

Those that advocate a re-creation, what you do for secular work now has higher value. Designing a beautiful building has worth because it may carry over into eternity when the world is refined and perfected.

On the other hand, those that advocate for a completely new creation don’t think secular work in itself has value, since everything is going to perish.

BOTH sides believe that how you work is important - with integrity, with love, etc. but different views on what happens to what you produce in the work

When I read Revelation 21, it talks explicitly about the old earth passing away, which I think points to it being destroyed, and the only thing that any of us carry into the new creation is each other. And I think that’s more consistent with what the Bible says.

Subjected the world to frustration

In Genesis 3 we see that God responds to adam and eve sinning by punishing them. And part of that punishment is that the ground becomes harder to work and bear crops….

The earth suffers when humanity sinned.

The ultimate example of this is the great flood where God delivers Noah and his family. All of the land animals are drowned with humanity. When humanity falls, the world suffers too, and that’s part of God’s plan.

Reasons for suffering:

Can’t know individual reasons for specific suffering, but we can know the big picture - God uses it for our good, to make us more like Christ.

I don’t think this suffering is necessarily about personal sin (?)

Predestination:

Brian houston quotes:

“I want to build the kind of church that releases people into their God-given potential. I need to ensure that the vision we are pursuing as a church is God-ordained and that it gives room for people to grow and for their dreams and hearts’ desires to be established.”

“In human terms, Jesus had plenty of reasons to fail in life, but two thousand years later his birth, his life, and his death continue to impact the world.”

In his book You need more money, Brian Houston tries to convince his readers that God wants them to prosper in this life, particularly with riches. He says:

“The Bible says that wealth and riches will be in a righteous mans house.”

“The Lord gives us the power to get wealth and we need to become people who attract finance into our lives”

The dangerous thing about this teaching is that this book contains so many half-truths from the Bible - In proverbs, God does say that being righteous brings prosperity, and it is true that it’s God who gives wealth.

But the overwhelming focus is on blessings now, prosperity now, which is not at all what this passage is saying - in fact it’s saying the opposite - suffering now, but glory ahead.

Feedback

Intro:

Am using childbirth as a metaphor for suffering

Could just talk about my suffering overtly, then link it to other’s suffering.

Or could bring up other people’s suffering.

Point 1 is incomparable

Application: keep it up, it’s worth it. Suffering is a given now, but it’s worth it.

The word groaning really captures our state - groaning, longing for the burden to be lifted. God understands that there is suffering now, but that’s not all. Liberation, revelation, redemption.

When we’ve been there 10k years, bright shining as the sun.

Paul is using illustrative words

Illustration about the now-but-not-yet with baby

Point 3 is unshakeable - pereservere because your on the right track

Conclusion

could use the line “the glorious Gospel that…”

Could talk about the other things

- get on with it, minimise pain,