QUESTIONS & ANSWERS

QUESTIONS & ANSWERS March 28, 2004 Given by: Pastor Rich Bersett [Index of Past Messages] Introductory This morning we are trying something new. As announced a couple of weeks ago, we have turned this morning's teaching time over to a "Question and Answer" format. I have been given a few questions in advance, written and submitted in the appropriate receptacle on the back table. I would like to thank those who took the time to provide these questions in advance-it gave me time to prepare for them, unlike the other questions we'll welcome later this morning from the floor, which will arrive in a more extemporaneous fashion. I must confess to a degree of discomfort at not knowing what is coming. But it's fun. Nevertheless I would request your prayers not so much that I would be comfortable or sharp, but that the Word of God would be our sole guide and source of truth. It is the Word of God that is our nourishment as believers-fat-free, cholesterol-free and low carbs! I will begin with the questions already submitted and deal with them with notes prepared in advance, then we will move on to taking your questions from the floor. Question #1 - The Romans 7-8 Quandary Most of us have a difficult time with fully understanding this passage written by the apostle Paul wherein he admits to struggling with the flesh, never doing the good that he wants to do, but always doing the bad; likewise, never avoiding the bad things he doesn't want to do, but always doing them. For those whose diligence in study have gotten them to the point where they have a degree of understanding about the passage, it always seems to elude when they are asked about it. So we're always approaching this challenging passage afresh. Because it would take a teaching series of 6 weeks to adequately cover the material in detail, I have elected to put my response to the series of questions posed on paper and present them in written form. Copies of my complete responses are available at the back table for those who would like to pursue the study further. In essence, the questioner was looking for clarification about a couple of things. The first has to do with whether the apostle Paul was a believer or non-believer when he wrote this section of the letter to the Romans. I believe we can deduce without much doubt that he was a Christian when he wrote it. After all, he is writing as an apostle (Romans 1:1-2) to instruct the church at Rome in theological and ecclesiological matters. He also confesses in the seventh chapter that he loves God's law, and he wants to do what is righteous. This is clearly a person of faith. If he was a Christian, the issue continues, why was he struggling with the flesh so badly? Why wasn't he finding victory in his struggle with carnality and sin? I would answer that question with a question: Why do you struggle so with the flesh and sin? Why do I? Though we are saved, we do still drag around with us this "body of flesh" and the temptations do not abate simply because we trust Christ for our salvation (in fact, many maintain that temptations get even more severe). I would suggest that though Paul was a Christian, and a mature one at that, he was "impersonating" a neophyte Christian as he wrote Romans 7 in order to make a point. These were experiences he had gone through, and might still to some degree, when he was a younger, newer Christian. The same is true for us. But as the believer matures he comes to understand and hold a deeper kind of faith-one that has learned to trust Christ and His Spirit operating within his life. It would be a fair assumption that many in this room to one degree or another, still believe that it is important for them to keep the commandments in order to please God. They know that they are saved because they couldn't do precisely that, but they nevertheless feel put upon by God to somehow "measure up" or "pay Him back" by being good boys and girls. And so, with the law of God's righteousness firmly in mind they struggle day after day to do well for God. It is as we mature that we come to realize 1) the futility of this way of living (we can never get it right), 2) the spiritual frustration of trying to be good enough, and 3) the Holy Spirit is our answer to living not only victoriously, but also in the kind of peace and rest that the Lord promised us (Matthew 11:28-30) The key to understanding this great passage, and the key to living victoriously over the law of sin and death, is succinctly stated in Romans 7:6 - "But now, by dying to once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." The new way of the Spirit is exactly what supersedes the Old Testament Law. That is, we are no longer bound by the Law, but free in the Spirit. This is why Paul, even as a Christian, can answer his own frustrated question, "Who will rescue me from this body of death?" (Romans 7:24-25) with a statement of victory, that he is rescued through what Christ has done for him (and us) - "Thanks be to God-through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Romans 8 goes on then to elucidate how Christ has done that for us. In the interest of time I will abbreviate this teaching severely, but the way we are delivered from the "law of sin and death" is through the "law of the Spirit of life" in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). The first few verses of Romans 8 make it clear that there are two parts of the cure: 1) forgiveness of sins (through the atoning death of Jesus), and 2) the Holy Spirit living inside the believer. The old hymn used to say, "…be of sin the double cure…save me from its guilt and pow'r". Christ has rescued us by dealing with our unforgiven sins AND by placing His own Spirit inside each believer to lead and empower us to live for Him, apart from the Law! We are forgiven and indwelt by God! I'll stop there in order to get on to the rest of the questions, but, again, the rest of the study is available separately below entitled, "The Romans 7-8 Quandary". I would urge you to study it carefully, but most importantly, read over the two chapters together several times and let the Holy Spirit massage the truth into your heart. Question #2 - Are we once saved always saved? Or (asked by another) Can we lose our salvation? Let me begin by saying that for millennia, throughout the history of the Lord's church, this issue has been debated. There are very wise and godly people who come up with widely divergent notions on the matter of "eternal security", so we understand we are entering into a well-worn area of disagreement. But we are all Christians under the grace of Jesus Christ, Amen? What I share with you this morning will rub against some of you like a salt block against an open wound. Others will welcome it as reflective of their conclusions. Some, I hope, will find their own understanding of the issue deepened as well as their love for Christ. First let's begin with some foundational truth. Salvation is defined as the state of being "saved" from condemnation through Christ. The Bible teaches clearly that we are saved by the grace of Christ. The Bible further says that we are saved by faith. That is, the way we connect to the salvation that has been fully bought for us by Christ is through faith-our trusting Him. The Bible makes clear what we know by looking around us. Some people believe (or trust) Christ and are saved, and others don't exercise such faith in Christ and they remain lost, unsaved. Only believers can be saved through Christ. Ephesians 2:8-9 says, "For it is by grace that you are saved THROUGH FAITH, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast." And Hebrews 11:6 says emphatically, "…without faith it is impossible to please God." Now, back to the question of eternal security. If I am saved, am I saved forever, no matter what? And the related question, Can I lose my salvation? If the question is, "Will God ever lose us or fail us or change His mind about our salvation?" then the answer is emphatically NO. If the question is "Can I ever stop believing in Christ, thereby nullifying my faith and forfeiting my salvation?" then the answer is YES. Follow me, now. There is never anything wrong or inadequate or incomplete or tentative about the salvation Christ offers us. 1 Peter 1:4-5 teaches that our salvation "can never perish, spoil or fade,—kept in heaven for you." Then next verse says you "through faith are shielded by God's power…" The one thing that connects us to the magnanimous grace of God for salvation is faith. When faith is present, salvation is our possession. If it is not present, one cannot be saved. Consider a homely illustration. We have fallen overboard into an angry ocean and we are drowning-no hope of saving ourselves. God throws us a life-saver, one that is absolutely guaranteed to save anyone. Well, not anyone, of course, only those who lay hold of it. To clarify, this life-saver, which represents the redemption Jesus earned for us, has this sticky stuff all over it. Once a desperate drowning person grabs onto it, it grabs onto him. In other words, there is nothing cheesy or inadequate about this salvation life-saver. Now, what if the drowning person, for some strange, unknown reason should decide he'd rather drown? We watch him struggle with getting free from this life-preserver, carefully, methodically removing his arms and hands from the sticky substance and freeing himself of the life-preserver. "Why?" we ask ourselves. We are incredulous at the choice this person is making, but he is actually choosing to let go of his only means of being saved. He is quitting believing. Why would a Christian, one who has tasted the kindness of the Lord in salvation, one who had personally known the presence and power of the Holy Spirit and experienced total forgiveness of his sins, ever want to let go of that? It's unimaginable! Yet the scripture refers to such people. John 6:70-71 - "Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" He meant Judas, the son of Simon…who was to betray Him." Romans 9:6-7 - "It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children…" Romans 9:27 -"Isaiah cries our concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved." Galatians 5:4 - "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." 2 Peter 2:20-21 - "If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred commandment that was passed on to them." 2 Peter 3:17 - "Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position." Hebrews 6:4-6 (see also 3:7-19 and 10:26-29) - "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." 1 John 2:18-19 - "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." If we simply let the scripture speak, we will hear multiple dozens of warning to not let our faith falter. There is a reason for that. Our faith is our only connection to the wonderful salvation we have in Christ. It is almost inconceivable that a Christian would forfeit his salvation, and to do so must be a terribly difficult thing to do, given the way the love of God holds us to Himself. But, just as God honors the free choice of a person to love and serve Him when they are pagans, the Christian is also given this awesome freedom to finally choose against Christ. How does one do that? Somehow (we don't know exactly), a Christian can continue in sin to the point of callusing his ability to hear the Holy Spirit's conviction in his own heart. For whatever reason he chooses to rebel to the point of disbelief. Once the faith connection is severed, the one-time believer finds himself in the most desperate place imaginable. Question #3 - 2 Peter 2:20-21 2 Peter 2:20-21 talks about those that have received salvation but reject God and return to their wicked ways. It states "they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them." If one never had salvation to begin with, then he would go to hell. If he received it at some time and then turned his back on God, the above scripture makes it sound like he would really, really go to hell. Assuming there are no degrees of hell, how could one be worse off than if he knew and then rejected his salvation? The Romans 7-8 Quandary [webmasters note: Pastor Rich's comments are in a different color] I have always had a problem understanding Romans 7:14-25. I looked at my commentaries and they indicate that Paul here is just having problems with his sinful nature Vs the Holy Spirit, as talked about in Galatians 5:16-26. The sanctification stage of his life. You hear also that some people believe this was Paul before he was a Christian and some say that this was Paul after he became a Christian. I don't have a problem with this, because as Christians I believe we all felt that way. While I know that Paul is having that problem between His sinful nature and the Holy Spirit it appears the problem goes deeper than just that. I agree with you. I think you're on target here. The following is what I think it also means but I can't find anything in what I have heard or read to confirm my thinking. Is my thinking right or wrong? I believe when Paul wrote this, he was a baby Christian and God at this point in his life did not yet give to him any of the scriptures that he wrote. I say that because in Romans 7:15 he says, "I do not understand what I do". I think if he already wrote those scriptures particularly Romans and Galatians he would have understood his problem. Then also in Romans 7:25 it seems that he now understood what the problem was but then in 7:25b it seems that he starts talking about his problem all over again. Paul was so upset with self that in vs 24 he says "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death". Death in the bible is referred to as a physical death, a spiritual death and the 2nd death. We know that he is not talking about a physical death nor the 2nd death so is he talking about a spiritual death? Perhaps this spiritual death in his thinking to mean, that when he sinned he lost his salvation, much like the Catholics believe. That is if you commit a mortal sin you lose your salvation and to get it back one had to receive the sacraments. Confession and communion. I would suggest that Paul was not a baby Christian when he wrote this section of scripture. Rather, he was projecting himself into that role. That is, he was either remembering when he was an immature believer or was imagining how the immature believer was thinking, and calling that person "I". Basically, he was "playing the role of a true, but immature believer who struggles with the issue that all of us as young Christians struggle with earlier in our faith walk. But, as we mature in the faith we learn that it is life in the Spirit (chapter 8) that makes the difference. It's a whole different WAY of living (here I like to emphasize Romans 7:6 "…released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not the old way of the written code"). Here are a couple of key comments from one of my favorite theologians, John R.W. Stott: "It would be as strange for unregenerate people to want ardently to do what is good as for regenerate people to confess that they cannot do it (15-19). How can a regenerate person, who has been set free from sin (6:18, 22; 8:2), describe himself as still its slave and prisoner (7:14, 23-25)? And how can an unregenerate person, who is hostile to God's law (8:7), declare that he delights in it (7:22)? There is an inherent contradiction here, which makes both extreme positions unacceptable . . . . .Paul is depicting, indeed impersonating, [the people's] peculiar relation to the law. Their anomaly was that, although they were Christian enough to delight in God's law, they were not Christian enough to obey it. They were making the mistake of looking to the law, instead of to the Spirit for their sanctification…" So, I would add to your thoughts that Paul was writing not before He understood (or wrote) about the things of the Spirit (because he was under the inspiration of the Spirit as he wrote here), but that he was "playing the role"/"impersonating" the immature believer in order to make his point with his readers. In this case, then, he is both mature and in possession of the full revelation concerning life in the Spirit (after all, he wrote about it in the next chapter). I just don't see him writing chapter 7 in spiritual infancy and then returning to write chapter 8 later as a mature Christian. I think he wrote it all at the same time, probably some time in the late 50's A.D. Concerning the "body of death" (vs. 24), Paul was speaking metaphorically of the death existence, i.e., the spiritual death (John 5:24, James 1:15) that results from being separated from God through sin. The young Christian struggles with the sense that he is still dead, until he comes to acknowledge that he is fully delivered spiritually and can live above the flesh that still clings to him. Perhaps Paul was like Martin Luther. I understand Martin Luther before he got the revelation on justification by faith he would go to confession every day some times lasting 2 and 3 hours at a time and then went back because of something he forgot. I know Paul did not confess his sins to a priest but perhaps Paul was spending a lot of time each day confession his sins and likely his temptations to sin to God to keep his salvation. And this is why he said in a sense in vss 17 & 21 sin just happens like I have no control over it. These being only his temptations and not actual sin, but he thought it was sin. Yes. I think you have it nailed down here. Perhaps at this point in his life being a baby Christian Paul did not know the difference between justification and sanctification. This is essentially it, Leo, except that Paul was not actually still in this state of babyhood. He was only "thinking back to it". Then also in Romans 8 where it starts out with the word "Therefore". It was always my understanding in use of that word "therefore" what would follow would immediately give the answer to Paul's problem that was in Romans 7:14-25. But instead of talking about sanctification, which was the stage Paul was in at that time, and also an answer on how to overcome sin in his life Romans 8:1-4 talks about justification. Then only after that did Paul talked about sanctification. Maybe he did this to show us the difference between the two. I think that the realization of the deliverance (justification and sanctification as a package deal) Christ gives the believer is the answer. The neophyte cries out in the throes of misery, "who can deliver me?" and Paul answers, "Listen to me-you have already been delivered. You have two precious gifts from your Deliverer: 1) the state of "no condemnation" (forgiveness of sin), and 2) the life of the Spirit in you (power over sin). I wouldn't make too much of a distinction between justification and sanctification. Struggling between the two is what keeps the baby Christian a baby. You can see in Romans 7:14-24 how upset Paul was with himself. He felt so guilty he felt so condemned. He even went to point of saying "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death". Then it seems sometime between vs 24 and 25a Paul now understood the difference between justification and sanctification. And this is why he started off in Romans 8:1 by saying "Therefore, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus". In a sense he is saying there was no reason for me to feel so guilty so condemned like I felt when I didn't understand the difference between justification and sanctification and the difference between temptation to sin and actual sin. Yes, but think in terms of not understanding the "connection" (instead of difference) between justification and sanctification. Christ has redeemed us by giving us the "double cure" to the law of sin and death. Incidentally, that Paul uses the term "sin AND death" helps me to understand that there are two related enemies for the unbeliever (and for the new believer, at least in his thoughts, not in reality): sin (that separated me from my God, and death (the sate of continuing in a helpless condition of lostness). Jesus paid the double price: no condemnation (sin forgiven) and new life (through the Spirit). Maybe this goes to the idea of the righteous requirements of the law being "FULLY MET" (Galatians 3:25) Another reason it appears that Paul didn't know the difference between justification and sanctification is the way he explained justification in vs 2-4. It seems he explained these verses in such a way that we could understand the difference. vs 2 seems to be a comparable verse with Galatians 3:25.1 like the term Paul used when he was telling us what was required for salvation "in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met" which is impossible for man to do but God made possible through His son. Again, I would say he knew the difference, but for the sake of making his point and identifying with the neophytes, he was impersonating the confused young Christian. Amen to the "fully met" concept! Then too vs 25b becomes clear. Instead of thinking that Paul is going back to the same problem, as that verse seems to say, what Paul is saying in a sense is "now that I understand so long as I am living in this body, that has a sinful nature, I am going to have a problem with a temptation to sin and actual sin even though I will do my best in using and following the Spirit power". Yes! That's exactly it! It is the "NEW WAY OF THE SPIRIT" (7:6) I love you, dear brother. Thank you for wrestling through these issues and helping me and inviting me to be part of it. I will try to answer this issue on Sunday, but cannot possibly deal with it fully, because I do want to get to other issues. Would you mind if I copied this dialogue (your comments & mine) and made it available as a study resource for others? Respectively Submitted. Leo J. Stauder "What We Belive About Healing" We Affirm and Trust 1. God's Compassion for Hurting People Jesus demonstrated compassion in His ministry to sick and hurting people - Mt 9:35-36; 14:14; 20:34; Mark 1:40-41, et al. Compassion for people is the heart of God - Ps 103:13; 2 Cor 1:3-4; Js 5:11 - the Lord is full of compassion and mercy God is not pleased that His world suffers evil as the consequence of sin, but in His wisdom He allows it. Nevertheless, it is His desire to compassionately heal. 2. God's Power to Heal Peter taught that during Jesus' earthly ministry He "went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil." He pointed out also that Jesus could do such miraculous works because "God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and power" (Acts 10:38). As He healed people, Jesus was not only bringing compassionate relief to the people, but he was also "to destroy the works of the devil" (1 Jn 3:8). The Bible further teaches that when the power of God is released against the devil's work it is evidence that the Kingdom of God is near (Mt 12:28). "If I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has come upon you." Jesus "passed on" the power and commission to heal the sick to his followers: "As you go, preach this message: 'The Kingdom of heaven is near.' Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give!" (Mt 10:7-8) This commission and power have been given to the church, the incarnated body of Christ in this world (Jn 14:10-14). God's power to heal is manifested in many ways: miraculous healings, the work of skilled physicians and medical personnel, time and the divinely-designed healing capacity of the human body, and prayer and ministry. 3. God's Will That People Be Brought to Wholeness through Jesus God's express will is that each person become whole in Jesus Christ-body, soul, and spirit. When a person submits to Jesus Christ, acknowledging He is Savior and Lord, his spirit is saved. Through the process of spiritual growth, the soul of the person is being redeemed for the Lord. And, when the believer goes to be with the Lord he is fully delivered in the physical realm. This is the inheritance of the saints of God: full redemption. In the meantime, we have a down payment of that heavenly promise, which guarantees we will receive full redemption-the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:14). Heaven is the time and place when our bodies are fully redeemed. In fact, we receive new bodies, equipped for eternal existence (1 Cor 15:35-38). This side of heaven, though, we are subject to the effects of sin and the Fall. The law of entropy is in effect-everything runs downhill. Everything is destined to die-even those who have received healing. And God does dispense healing in this world. He permits us to borrow against our future inheritance, in a sense. We who are saved have a NOW and THEN physical wholeness. THEN, we will be perfectly whole and eternally healthy; NOW, we are subject to decay and death, and have only temporary healing available to us. 4. God's Plan for Healing Ministry • Healing will be eternal • Healing is available in this fallen world ◦ To demonstrate God's compassion and power to His glory ◦ To bring God's reassuring touch to hurting people ◦ To prove His Kingdom is here and coming soon in power ◦ To draw unsaved people to Jesus (Jn 20:31) • Healing is part of the church's ministry. "Therefore, confess you faults to one another and pray for each other that you may be healed." (James 5:16) • Healing is God's ministry to individuals in order to ◦ Help bring us to maturity ◦ Reassure us in times of doubt, pain and despair ◦ Prove His faithfulness, giving us hope ◦ Provide a foretaste of our future full redemption Why Doesn't Everyone Receive Healing Everytime We Pray For Them? 1. God doesn't usually heal if we don't ask or don't ask with real faith (Js 4:2; 1:6-7). 2. God doesn't usually answer prayers when we pray harboring unrepented sin or unholy motives (Js 4:3; 1 Pt 3:7). 3. God reserves the right to answer with a NO or a NOT YET for reasons we either don't know or don't understand. 1. He may have a greater purpose in not healing (yet) (2 Cor 12:7-9) 2. He may be using our pain or His delayed response to build our character (Rom 5:3; Js 1:2) 3. He may be saving someone else, using our endurance or even our death (Rev 12:11; 2 Cor 6:3-10) 4. He may be teaching us to be more persistent in our praying, more passionate in our pursuit of Him or more patient in waiting on Him. We Will Pray for Healing for People 1. WHY we pray for people to be healed • Jesus modeled this ministry • Jesus commanded this ministry • Jesus empowered us for this ministry • We love people 2. HOW we pray for people to be healed In our healing ministry we will conform to the following five biblical behaviors. 1. We will BELIEVE God for healing 1. We do not heal-God does. But He will use our prayers of faith, hope, and love. 2. We will not rely on human wisdom, popular forms, prayer clich?, tradition-bound methodology or manipulative words or actions for healing. We will simply ask God in faith. 3. We will shun all manner of human exaltation, grandstanding, glitzy showmanship or any method which, in any way, dilutes the glory of God alone for healing. 4. We will encourage everyone in the body of Christ to pray for healing for themselves and one another, especially those with gifts of healing 2. We will ASK God for healing Faith is always demonstrated by action. Therefore we will consistently, obediently and enthusiastically pray for the sick, petitioning God for their healing. We should always pray and not give up (Lk 18:1; Eph 6:18; 1 Thes 5:17), we will always encourage believers to pray for others, and will always provide an environment where it is easy for sick and hurting people to ask for and receive prayer for healing. 3. We will REMOVE ALL KNOWN OBSTACLES to effective prayer There are often hidden problems that can prevent the Lord from sending healing in answer to prayer, but there are some clear, biblical obstacles which we must rid ourselves of as we pray for healing 1. unbelief (Heb 11:6; Js 1:6; 4:2) 2. wrong motive (Js 4:3) 3. unconfessed sin (Js 4:4-8; 5:16) 4. insincerity (not wanting to pray for healing) 4. We will OBEY THE WORD AND THE SPIRIT The Word of God instructs us to pray for healing and teaches us how to pray for healing (Js 5) The Spirit of God leads us to pray for healing, empowers us for such prayer, and actually directs us through gifts of faith, healing, and prophetic insight. Signs and wonders following preaching of the Word. 5. We will MINISTER WITH LOVE for people 1. We will strive to have pure motives 2. We will strive to want God's best for whose for whom we pray 3. We will pray and behave sensitively toward the people for whom we pray 4. We will minister PASTORALLY to people for whom we pray (a loving community who follow through and care for people). THE CHURCH IS HEALING'S NATURAL HOME. [Back to Top]