Searching for clarity on predestination

Jeremiah

The best concert ever

Jeremiah 18:5–10 ESV

Then the word of the Lord came to me: “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter has done? declares the Lord. Behold, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.

In case you were wondering it’s just 65 days until Christmas (my favorite holiday), and my third favorite holiday Halloween is just 11 days away. Not because I am a Satan worshipper, but because it was the one day a year my mom who wouldn’t even allow us to purchase presweatened cereal would allow us to eat as much candy as possible. I used to love dressing up in costume and going trick or treating.

In case you were wondering it’s just 65 days until Christmas (my favorite holiday), and my third favorite holiday Halloween is just 11 days away. Not because I am a Satan worshipper, but because it was the one day a year my mom, who wouldn’t even allow us to purchase pre-sweatened cereal would allow us to eat as much candy as humanly possible. I used to love dressing up in costume and going trick or treating.

Halloween also marks the anniversary of the best concert I ever experienced at Rupp when Def Lepard came with Tesla. It was phenomenal. 2020 is stacking up to be a huge year for concerts in Lexington. Elton John is coming to Rupp in June for his fifteenth Farewell Tour. The granddaddy of all concerts will be the first ever concert held at Kroger Field featuring Chris Stapleton, Willie Nelson, and Cheryl Crowe on April 25th. Not as popular but equally exciting for me is that Kristi has agreed to go see Lauren Daigle and JohnnySwim at Rupp in April. If you haven’t heard about Johnny Swim think Civil Wars with a Latin-African flavor. I hope it can rival the greatest concert I ever experienced.

When I think back to all of the concerts I have been to, and maybe it is like 20. There are two that stand out. One is when Def Lepard and Tesla played Rupp on Halloween Night. It was fabulous. I didn’t go, but I think Pink Floyd is the only other concert that may have rivaled that event. That show was just outstanding.

It wasn’t Whitney Houston at Rupp, or Janet Jackson at Freedom Hall, or Lynkin Park and POD or even Def Lepard. In fact, the number of people in attendance was less than 2000. It was in the Chapel at Asbury College. It’s been a while since we heard anything from these guys, but the name of the group is Jars of Clay. They had some crossover success with one song in particular that resulted in their touring with the likes of Matchbox 20 and even Sting. Their first album went double Platinum, and before any of this happens Kristi and I get to see them, and the song that had crossover success was titled Flood.

Downpour on my soul

Splashing in the ocean,

I'm losing control

Dark sky all around I can't feel my feet touching the ground

But if I can't swim after forty days and my mind is crushed by the crashing waves Lift me up so high that I cannot fall Lift me, oh Lift me up - when I'm falling Lift me up - I'm weak and I'm dying Lift me up - I need you to hold me Lift me up - keep me from drowning again

Downpour on my soul

Splashing in the ocean,

How many of you know the group Jars of Clay?

To this day my favorite version of Drummer Boy is by Jars of Clay. I would encourage you to make it a part of your Christmas playlist.

Speaking of Christmas, Jars of Clay has a version of Drummer Boy that is my favorite Christmas song.

Flood portrays a helpless individual in a helpless situation who needs someone to keep them from drowning. My in-laws just got back form a cruise that went up along the northeast coast and on their way home they experienced 20-30 foot swells for two days. The sea was so violent that they had to let down the rafts in order to try to help stabilize the boat.

Flood portrays a helpless individual in a helpless situation who needs someone to keep them from drowning. So, I want us to have this picture in mind. A person stuck in the middle of a violent flood of sin.

So, I want us to have this picture in mind. A person stuck in the middle of a violent flood of sin.

I read a devotional recently that made this statement, “A drowning person never saves themselves.”

It’s that statement that has provided the inspiration for where we are going to go this morning. It just so happens that one of my jobs as an adolescent was lifeguarding. As I remember when we were learning how to save someone from drowning we had a list of things we were supposed to do.

Lifeguard rules

2020 is stacking up to be a huge year for concerts in Lexington. Elton John is coming to Rupp in June for his fifteenth Farewell Tour. The granddaddy of all concerts will be the first ever concert held at Kroger Field featuring Chris Stapleton, Willie Nelson, and Cheryl Crowe on April 25th. Not as popular but equally exciting for me is that Kristi has agreed to go see Lauren Daigle and Johnny Swim at Rupp in April. If you haven’t heard about Johnny Swim think Civil Wars with a Latin-African flavor.

When you perceive someone is drowning you enter the water prepared, safely, and quickly.

As you approach the swimmer you identify with your name, your occupation, and that you are there to help.

The best concert I ever experienced at Rupp is when Def Leppard came with Tesla on the Hysteria Tour Halloween 1988. It was a whole lot of fun. But it wasn’t the greatest concert I have ever been to. I’ve seen Whitney Houston at Rupp, Janet Jackson at Freedom Hall, Lynkin Park and POD. In fact, the number of people in attendance was less than 2000. It was in the Chapel at Asbury College. It’s been a while since we heard anything from these guys, but the name of the group is Jars of Clay. They had some crossover success with one song in particular that resulted in their touring with the likes of Matchbox 20 and even Sting. Their first album went double Platinum, and before any of this happens Kristi and I get to see them. Aside from the greatest version of Drummer Boy, my favorite Christmas Song, their biggest mainstream music hit song that had crossover success was titled Flood.

If at any time during the rescue the distressed swimmer places you, the lifeguard, at risk you disengage and wait for an opportunity to try again.

Play song and show Lyrics here

Downpour on my soul

In other words, if the person refuses your assistance you don’t assist. Now once the person becomes incapacitated the lifeguard has a choice to attempt to save or not to save.

Splashing in the ocean,

Now I want to use this scene to illustrate predestination or election and the different understandings of who the elect are and how did they come to be elected.

First of all we know from Scripture that God can choose whatever he wants to do whenever he wants to do it. It’s what makes Him God. God is not bound to our expectations of Him. He’s sovereign. The Psalmist says,

Psalm 29:10 LEB

Yahweh sits enthroned at the flood, and Yahweh sits as king forever.

I'm losing control

Psalm 29:3–11 LEB

The voice of Yahweh is over the waters; the God of glory thunders. Yahweh is over many waters. The voice of Yahweh is powerful. The voice of Yahweh is majestic. The voice of Yahweh breaks the cedars. Yahweh shatters even the cedars of Lebanon. And he makes them skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young wild ox. The voice of Yahweh flashes flames of fire. The voice of Yahweh shakes the wilderness. Yahweh shakes the wilderness of Kadesh. The voice of Yahweh causes deer to give birth and strips the forests bare. And at his temple all in it say, “Glory!” Yahweh sits enthroned at the flood, and Yahweh sits as king forever. May Yahweh give strength to his people. May Yahweh bless his people with peace.

Dark sky all around I can't feel my feet touching the ground

Election or predestination indicates that God has the prerogative to determine events independently of human choice.

Everyone agrees that this is the definition of election, but what there is disagreement on is how this plays out in the salvation of individuals. Being a part of the elect becomes important because these are the people at the end of time who get to be with God.

But if I can't swim after forty days and my mind is crushed by the crashing waves

So, who are the elect and how do they become elected?

Is it possible that God chose some of us even before we were born to be saved and others were not chosen to be saved?

Doesn’t everyone get the chance to be saved?

In this analogy: Water is sin. Jesus is the Lifeguard. We are drowning.

Water is sin. Jesus is the Lifeguard. We are drowning.

First of all let me state some non-negotiables:

All of us are in the flood waters. ( for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Paul quotes in 10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”)

10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” )

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God)

“None is righteous, no, not one;

11 no one understands;

no one seeks for God.

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.)

12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;

no one does good,

not even one.” )

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.)

Jesus is the Lifeguard. ( But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.)

20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.

God decided to send Jesus into the Flood. We did nothing to facilitate it. (: 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”)

27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”)

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.)

Jesus is in the flood waters with us. ( For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.)

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.

Jesus saves everyone who trusts Jesus to save them. ( because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.)

9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Once Jesus has begun the active part of rescuing us He will not fail to rescue us. ( For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Just about everyone across every denomination is in agreement with it up to here. But it is at this point things get a little more murkey.

11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.

6a. While Jesus will not fail to do His part we can at any moment once again refuse his help. Jesus will move back to observation and away from salvation. (Arminius) ( The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. : 37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! 38 See, your house is left to you desolate.)

9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! 38 See, your house is left to you desolate.

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.)

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.

6b. If Jesus decides that we are to be saved He is going to drag us to shore no matter what. And if God predetermined that you were not to be saved then Jesus isn’t in the water to get you out.(Calvin)

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.

Harris, W. H., III, Ritzema, E., Brannan, R., Mangum, D., Dunham, J., Reimer, J. A., & Wierenga, M. (Eds.). (2012). The Lexham English Bible (). Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.(Calvin)

Some Calvinists actually believed that God chose the elect before the Fall of Adam and Eve and that God also chose the reprobate. Others believe that God’s choice to predestine was a response to the Fall.

So, does God give everyone the opportunity to repent and be saved? Arminius would say yes. Calvin would say no. I lean toward Arminius, but I leave the window open for Calvin.

What is not debated is that God initiates the act of saving.

Is it possible to reject Christ if God desires to save us? Arminius would say maybe. There are examples, like Paul, who seem to have such dramatic experiences with God that they are left without an option. But what God does with Paul is not necessarily what God does with you and me. Calvin would say no. It’s impossible to reject Jesus if God has predetermined that you be saved. I lean toward Arminius, but I respect Calvin’s views as possible.

English Standard Version Chapter 1

27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

Lift me up so high that I cannot fall

Hopefully,

I believe that God knew

So, either God predetermines the “How” we are saved or God predetermines the “How and the Who and He’s only here for the Who.”

Elwell, W. A., & Beitzel, B. J. (1988). Elect, Election. In Baker encyclopedia of the Bible (Vol. 1, p. 682). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House.

Lift me, oh

I believe it’s possible that some of you had little to no choice. God saved you with very little effort on your part. I also believe it is possible that God saved you once you cried out for His help and that you have remained in His help.

Lift me up - when I'm falling

Regardless of what theologians believe. The question remains for you.

Lift me up - I'm weak and I'm dying

Are you a part of God’s elect?

Lift me up - I need you to hold me

Is God, at this moment, calling you to place your Faith in Jesus?

Are you aware of the fact that no one has ever saved themselves from drowning?

Lift me up - keep me from drowning again

Have you recognized that you are drowning in the Flood of sin, and are in need of a life guard to save you?

Whether or not God has ordained this moment from the beginning of time or if He is orchestrating this moment for your sake

And to be honest, whether God knew it and is doing it all right now, or whether you are actively participating in this moment doesn’t really matter. What does matter is whether or not you are in the loving arms of Jesus. What really matters is whether or not you trust Him to free you from sin and to give you eternal life. What really matters is that you know that you will drown if Jesus doesn’t save you.

Water is sin. Jesus is the Lifeguard. You are drowning.

Flood portrays a helpless individual in a helpless situation who needs someone to keep them from drowning. So, I want us to have this picture in mind. A person stuck in the middle of a violent flood, or a storm tossed ocean.

Downpour on my soul

I read a devotional recently that made this statement, “A drowning person never saves themselves.”

Splashing in the ocean,

It’s that statement that has provided the inspiration for where we are going to go this morning. It just so happens that one of my jobs as an adolescent was lifeguarding. As I remember when we were learning how to save someone from drowning we had a list of things we were supposed to do.

I'm losing control

Lifeguard rules

Dark sky all around I can't feel my feet touching the ground

When you perceive someone is drowning you enter the water prepared, safely, and quickly.

But if I can't swim after forty days and my mind is crushed by the crashing waves Lift me up so high that I cannot fall Lift me, oh Lift me up - when I'm falling Lift me up - I'm weak and I'm dying Lift me up - I need you to hold me Lift me up - keep me from drowning again

As you approach the swimmer you identify with your name, your occupation, and that you are there to help.

If at any time during the rescue the distressed swimmer places you, the lifeguard, at risk you disengage and wait for an opportunity to try again.

In other words, if the person refuses your assistance you don’t assist. Now once the person becomes incapacitated the lifeguard has a choice to attempt to save or not to save based upon their risk assessment.

Now I want to use this scene to illustrate predestination or election and the different understandings of who the elect are and how did they come to be elected.

First of all we know from Scripture that God can choose whatever he wants to do whenever he wants to do it. It’s what makes Him God. God is not bound to our expectations of Him. He’s sovereign. The Psalmist says,

3 The voice of the Lord is over the waters;

the God of glory thunders,

the Lord, over many waters.

4 The voice of the Lord is powerful;

the voice of the Lord is full of majesty.

5 The voice of the Lord breaks the cedars;

the Lord breaks the cedars of Lebanon.

6 He makes Lebanon to skip like a calf,

and Sirion like a young wild ox.

7 The voice of the Lord flashes forth flames of fire.

8 The voice of the Lord shakes the wilderness;

the Lord shakes the wilderness of Kadesh.

9 The voice of the Lord makes the deer give birth

and strips the forests bare,

and in his temple all cry, “Glory!”

10 The Lord sits enthroned over the flood;

the Lord sits enthroned as king forever.

11 May the Lord give strength to his people!

May the Lord bless his people with peace!

What a majestic and intimidating Psalm. With just his voice God can make anything happen.

Election or predestination indicates that God has the prerogative to determine events independently of human choice.

Everyone agrees that this is the definition of election, but what there is disagreement on is how this plays out in the salvation of individuals. Being a part of the elect becomes important because these are the people at the end of time who get to be with God.

So, who are the elect and how do they become elected?

Is it possible that God chose some of us even before we were born to be saved and others were not chosen to be saved?

Doesn’t everyone get the chance to be saved?

First of all let me state some non-negotiables:

1. All of us are in the flood waters. ( for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Paul quotes in as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”)

2. Jesus is the Lifeguard. ( But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.)

3. God decided to send Jesus into the Flood. We did nothing to facilitate it. ( But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”)

4. Jesus is in the flood waters with us. ( For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.)

5. Jesus saves everyone who trusts Jesus to save them. ( because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.)

6. Once Jesus has begun the active part of rescuing us He will not fail to rescue us. ( For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”)

Just about everyone across every denomination is in agreement with it up to here. But it is at this point things get a little more murkey.

6a. While Jesus will not fail to do His part we can at any moment once again refuse his help. Jesus will move back to observation and away from salvation.

(Lifeguard Rules)

(Arminius) ( The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! 38 See, your house is left to you desolate.)

6b. If Jesus decides that we are to be saved He is going to drag us to shore no matter what. And if God predetermined that you were not to be saved then Jesus isn’t in the water to get you out.(Calvin) ) even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will)

So, does God give everyone the opportunity to repent and be saved? Arminius would say yes. Calvin would say no. I lean toward Arminius, but I leave the window open for Calvin.

Is it possible to reject Christ if God desires to save us? Arminius would say maybe. There are examples, like Paul, who seem to have such dramatic experiences with God that they are left without an option. But what God does with Paul is not necessarily what God does with you and me. Calvin would say no. It’s impossible to reject Jesus if God has predetermined that you will be saved. I lean toward Arminius, but I respect Calvin’s views as possible.

So, either God predetermines the “How” we are saved or God predetermines the “How and the Who and He’s only here for the Who.”

I believe it’s possible that some of you had little to no choice. God saved you with very little effort on your part. I also believe it is possible that God saved you once you cried out for His help and that you have remained in His help.

Regardless of what theologians believe. The question remains for all of you.

Are you a part of God’s elect?

Is God, at this moment, calling you to place your Faith in Jesus?

Are you aware of the fact that no one has ever saved themselves from drowning in the ocean of sin?

Have you recognized that you are drowning in the Flood of sin, and are in need of a life guard to save you?

And to be honest, whether God knew it and is doing it all right now, or whether you are actively participating in this moment doesn’t really matter. What does matter is whether or not you are in the loving arms of Jesus. What really matters is whether or not you trust Him to free you from sin and to give you eternal life. What really matters is that you know that you will drown if Jesus doesn’t save you.

If you get nothing else out of this just remember…

Water is sin. Jesus is the Lifeguard. You are drowning.

Play Jars Again

Downpour on my soul

Splashing in the ocean,

I'm losing control

Dark sky all around I can't feel my feet touching the ground

But if I can't swim after forty days

and my mind is crushed by the crashing waves

Lift me up so high that I cannot fall

Lift me, oh

Lift me up - when I'm falling

Lift me up - I'm weak and I'm dying

Lift me up - I need you to hold me

Lift me up - keep me from drowning again

Pray