P&T

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My Story with Mental Health (Personal)

Name, Role, Church

Topic - “The Relation between Psychology and Theology”

My story in Training (RTS)

Are they compatible?

Counseling and Christianity

Are the Compatible?

Different categories

PRAY

Let me ask you:

Worldview vs. Category

DISCUSS

They Are, but how?

Q: Are Psychology and Theology compatible? Why or why not?

Show of hands?

MY STORY

MY STORY

Let me tell you a little of My Story because any answer you give or I give comes with in a context

The context of our life experiences.

Not Raised as a Christian

Broken Home

Came to Faith at age 26 in Militar

Came to Faith at age 26 in Military

Entered Ministry at age 29 in Seattle

Entered Ministry at age 29 in Seattle

Moved to Orlando in 2013 - Wife and 3mo Old

Finished a Counseling Degree at RTS in 2016

Came on Staff at One Hope Church

Am now the Teaching Pastor.

PERSONAL STRUGGLES

During that time I went through 4 years of counseling.

I’ve struggled with Depression

I was addicted to Porn for 15 years until shortly after my conversion

I struggled with my sexual identity for many years

I’ve taken antidepressants.

I’ve counseled many others over the last 4 years

some 1150 hours.

So this question is very personal to me, and very important.

After all I am both a Pastor and a Counselor seeking licensure in the state.

All of this informs the answer to the question of Psychology and Theology.

THE SPECTRUM

As with many things there is a spectrum of where people fall.

Let me tell you what it is and then I’ll tell you what I think.

(1) Far left: Bible Only

Doesn’t have much use for ‘secular’ psychology

Doesn’t have much use for ‘secular’ pschology

Problems are rooted in our sin nature.

The solution is faith in Christ and a life of repentance.

(5) Far Right: Separate but Equal

Separate but Equal

Theology speaks about theological things

Psychology speaks about behavior and things

(2-5) Middle: Integrative Approach

(2) Foundation (Dan Allender)

From a Biblical foundation how do you critique secular theories.

(3) Filter

Bible will be a filter, whatever doesn’t contradict scripture we will use.

Most popular Christian Counseling written from here.

In 1-3 - Bible trumps common revelation.

(4) Focus

Pragmatic

When one speaks it trumps the other.

Starts to get more liberal in reading of scripture.

SO WHERE DO I LAND?

Probably around a 2.

I would say the Christian Faith is the soil in which all disciplines grow, not just psychology.

THE PROBLEM OF WORLDVIEW

I think the mental health care field has a lot to offer

We all could benefit from some good counseling.

I would say “THEY GET THE MIDDLE RIGHT”

not the BEGINNING and END

This brings us to the ISSUE OF WORLDVIEW

Worldview = how we see the world and make sense of it.

Where we came from?

Why we are here?

What the problem with the world is?

What the solution is?

Where we are going?

When I say WV think — Christianity

Christian Worldview or Biblical Worldview

Other WV’s — Secular/Naturalism, Islamic, Buddhist — World Religions

Problems arise when something like Science tries to encompass a worldview.

ILL: WV is the soil in which all disciplines grow.

Problems arise when the tree that has grown thinks that it is the worldview.

For Example:

Evolution — good science there is some form of evolution.

Problem: Richard Dawkins and others try to make it a worldview.

It tries to answer questions it is not equipped to answer.

Science can answer the “how” of things, but it can’t answer the “why”

Because the scientific method is based on observation.

What if there is a reality that can’t be observed?

Then there is a fundamental flaw in your WV

BACK TO PSYCHOLOGY:

What’s important is not so much the mental health practices, but the worldview that is fueling them.

Not to mention: there are many different approaches to counseling:

CBT, Motivational Interviewing, Attachment Theory, IFS, EMDR, Gestalt, Pschoanalysis

Which one is right?

Depends on the situation.

Depends on the story. Depends on the person.

It’s not that PSYCHOLOGISTS have thought too much about the world, they haven’t thought enough about it. About the implications of their worldview.

Is it consistent? Coherent?

ILL: Submarine

Here’s the Point:

What does it mean to be human?

If you don’t have the right set of data, your approach will be fundamentally flawed.

We have to look at the WHOLE PICTURE.

Q: What is the nature of human beings? (physical, cognitive, emotional, social…etc.)

anyone want to answer?

BIBLICAL WORLDVIEW

Human beings are body, mind and spirit.

Physical, Psychological, Emotional, Relational, Spiritual

If a particular psychological approach denies the spiritual reality of a human being, it will not be able to ultimately help a person.

it will be able to help a person.

Our biggest problem is a spiritual one and a relational one.

Through sin we have been separated from the source of life and all that is good and right

Until we get right with our Creator (the vertical relationship) none of our horizontal relationships will ultimately work.

Of course, there are good relationships and people that do good things.

Common Grace

Total Depravity vs. Utter Depravity.

The Problem with fundamentalism is it tends to only focus on Depravity.

But Biblically we have depravity and dignity

Biblically — Created Good — inherent dignity of image bearers

Fall left the world Broken.

Problem with Bible ONLY is they don’t see how vast the effects of the Fall really are.

All of creation was fractured.

Our relationship with God

Our relationship with each other

Our relationship with ourselves

Our relationship with the rest of creation.

Result of Brokenness:

Our bodies don’t function right

Our minds don’t function right — imbalances

depression / anxiety

just like diabetes.

Medication can be helpful

SINNER/SINNED AGAINST

We live in a broken world.

We need help because of sin.

We are simultaneously two things:

All Sinned against

All sin by nature and choice

Secular Psychology tends to ignore or even deny the second.

Fundamentalist tend to ignore the first

But we need to hold both in balance.

Can't repent of a wound, can only heal

Untangling this can be really tricky.

We have to take both in account when we counsel.

There is both dignity and depravity in the heart of every human being.

Everybody has a story

We cannot answer in generalities until we know the specifics of a story

No two stories are the same.

This is part of the neat part of counseling.

You will never have exactly the same story from someone.

We are complex beings.

Marvelous beings intricately and majestically woven together.

Caring for the soul can be equally complex and intricate.

CONCLUSIONS:

Are P & T compatible — absolutely.

Should you get counseling? — Probably

But if you do, I would recommend finding a good Counselor with a Biblical Worldview.

THE PROBLEM OF WORLDVIEW

I think Psychology has much to offer

Where it runs into problems is the same as the scientific community, say evolution

There are many around here.

When it steps out side of it’s boundaries and tries to encompass a worldview.

In other words:

RTS Clinic is one place to find less expensive counseling form a Biblical Worldview.

Soil = worldview = Christianity vs. Naturalism

don’t confuse the plant for the foundation

Materialism

While counseling can do much good, especially for those who have experience abuse in their life.

We are not just physical beings, but emotional, spiritual, cognitive.

Gets much of the middle right and helpful but is fundamentally flawed in its view of where we came from and where we are going.

PRACTICALLY

If i’m a believer should I go outside of the church for mental health? Should I, can I see a counselor?

Can I see a psychiatrist?

Yes

But also depends.

One of the things I do is help people assess what their needs are.

I think some people absolutely need one on one counseling.

You need grace and care, and love and empathy.

usually if there is abuse in the background this will be needed

Some people don’t.

We must remember we are simultaneously

Sinned against

Sinners

Untangling this can be tricky.

Secular Psychology ignores the second point.

Bible only Counseling can ignore the first.

But you need more than that.

There is both dignity and depravity in the heart of every human being.

Everybody has a story

We cannot answer in generalities until we know the specifics of a story

No two stories are the same.

We are RELATIONAL BEINGS

ALL SIN IS RELATIONAL

The biggest issue when secular counseling is it dismisses the fundamental part of who we are: spiritual beings.

It also tends to down play the existence of evil and the reality of sin

You cannot arrive at an accurate diagnosis if you are not looking at the whole of a person.

If you do counseling I would recommend finding a Christian Therapist, lots of good ones in this area.

RTS is good.

Ultimately the only one who can heal us at the deepest level and make us whole is Jesus Christ.

The only one who can truly heal us and help us is the Holy Spirit.

Holy Spirit works through pepole

God uses ordinary means all the time

Counseling can and has in my life helped clear the way to love Jesus more.

RESOURCES

Christians Get Depressed to - David Murray

The Healing Path - Dan Allendar

Larry Crab, Dianne Langberg, David Powlison, Ed Welch

CONNECT

I’LL BE IN THE BACK

IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS

WANT TO TALK

OR JUST GRAB A FREE BOOK

PRAY

The fault of the Bible only is the tend to not see vastness of the effects of the fall, that all of creation has been broken.

Our minds don’t work properly

We don’t think properly.

Medication can help — Diabetics.

CONCLUSIONS