Where are They Now?

Revelation 6:9–11 ESV

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

The pathway of our lives inevitably leads us through some difficult terrain. Marc and Lorna grew up in Southern California. They were high school sweethearts. Marc was a baseball and football star … Lorna was a cheerleader. Sounds like a perfect, storybook life … and you may think – “What could possibly be difficult about a life like that?!” As we’ve heard this afternoon, things weren’t always easy at home for Marc as a kid. Nathan told me that Marc was such a good football player that he was being recruited by UCLA … but he chose instead to turn his back on football, to leave Southern California behind and join the Navy and head off for Vietnam, in the middle of the war. Marc knew difficulties.

But there is nothing more difficult that you will experience in your entire life, than to hold the hand of a loved one, as you watch the life fading from them, right before your eyes … Nobody needs to tell you what a broken heart feels like – you know the true meaning of that.

What makes the heartbreak bearable, an opportunity for praise, even – is when you know that your loved one did, ‘In Christ’. As difficult as it for us to be here this afternoon – what a tremendous comfort …

The Word of God has promise after wonderful promise about the glorious future of the New Heaven and the new Earth. We have the assurance that Marc has gone to be with His Lord and Savior … We have the promises from Jesus, from Paul in 1 Thessalonians and 1 Corinthians and elsewhere – that Jesus is coming back from heaven in glory to raise Marc’s body …. That you will see him again – and for eternity, you will enjoy heaven’s delight with him.

But do you ever wonder what, exactly, the experience of the Christian loved ones, who have gone before us – what it is … RIGHT NOW? What about the in-between time. points to the future, when there will be a new heaven and a new earth – when the new Jerusalem will come down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride. But that’s in the future. Where is Marc – RIGHT NOW? In the intermediate state – the in-between time – between the end of this earthly life – and the enjoyment of that future, resurrected glory?

We already know that heaven, at its most basic – is the place where God lives. God lived in heaven in eternity past, before He had created this universe. also points to the NEW heaven that is still to come. But God lives in heaven right now, too. It’s this in-between – we’ll call it, the intermediate heaven, that I want us to focus on, today.

And our text, from , deals with this very question. There’s no specific Bible passage that gives a point-by-point lesson about every detail of the intermediate state – but there’s enough information here, as well as in a few other portions of God’s Word, that can give us a glimpse into where the dead in Christ are, right now. And I want to ENCOURAGE you, Landrys, with the comfort of God’s Word, as we deal with the question of where Marc is, right now.

In the 6th chapter of Revelation, Jesus, the resurrected, exalted Lamb that was slain, takes a scroll, on which is written what God has Sovereignly decreed for world history and the judgments that will bring history to a close. The scroll is sealed with 7 seals to keep its decrees secret. Unless these seals are broken, God’s plan for the universe will be frustrated.

At first, there is no one who is found worthy to break the seals. That means that God’s purposes will not be accomplished. There’s great weeping - - then Jesus steps forward, the LION of the tribe of Judah. Jesus alone is found worthy to break open these seals that unleash God’s judgments on the earth. Now the fifth seal is broken and the scene changes. And that brings us to v. 9 of our text:

When Jesus opens the seal, v. 9 tells us that John, “saw under the altar …”. Doesn’t that sound strange? This is heaven. There’s no need for an altar IN HEAVEN, to offer sacrifices on – the risen Lamb of God is there – the once-for-all sacrifice has been offered and accepted.

So, why the mention of an altar? The text tells us why. Read on: “I saw under the altar … the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.”

These are the souls of those who have been slain. These are Christian martyrs and the mention of the ALTAR here in heaven is to point out that God sees their lives as a type of sacrifice.

So sold out have they been for the Word of God and the truth of the Gospel they have experienced that, when persecution came – and the time came for them to make a choice, “Will you compromise? Will you deny your Lord and Savior? Will you deny His Word …. These Christians said, ‘Go ahead and take my life – I will cling to the truth and will not let go – no matter the cost!’”

And here they are now, in the presence of their Savior, as he unleashes judgment on the earth …. While history marches onward.

Now you may be wondering – “What does this have to do with us? After all – these are martyrs. I don’t even personally know anyone who’s given up his life for the Gospel. Marc was a fully committed Christian – but he died of natural causes.”

I want to tell you that this absolutely IS relevant to your questions about Marc – because while it speaks specifically about martyrs, it’s bigger than that. When John points to those who had been ‘slain’ – this is metaphor … he’s pointing to all those who have suffered for their faith and have ‘conquered’ the world by standing firm in Jesus to the end.

This is the same idea Jesus had, when he spoke in , “Whoever does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me (39) Whoever finds his life will lose it and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” Jesus isn’t saying that the only people who are going to be saved and find their lives are the ones that lose them – who die by being crucified. He is pointing to everyone who trusts Him enough to stand firm in faith – no matter the cost.

It’s the same idea as Paul had in , when he’s making the point that nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love. He quotes from the Psalms and writes, ‘For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” But … “In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.”

Do you see what Paul is saying? Not that he and the Roman Christians are literally being put to death, all day, every day. That’s impossible. No, he’s saying that we are standing firm in our witness to Jesus and faithfulness to him – and because of that – we are facing the hostilities of a world in sin. But we know that our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, has us firmly in His grip.

No, our text is not just about literal martyrs - - it agrees with everything else the Scripture says about the state of all believers who have died in the in-between time, before Jesus returns for the glorious resurrection. This is the story of Marc and all of our Christian loved ones who have gone on ahead of us. This is YOUR future – if you belong to Jesus.

Let me give you THREE lessons we can learn about the existence of Christians in the intermediate state.

1 THE CHRISTIAN DEAD ARE IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD NOW

In v. 9, John looks and sees the souls of the Christian dead, under the altar. That’s important. Remember, God is OMNIPRESENT – the theological term we use to point to the Bible’s teaching that God fills all things. There is no place, in all creation, in all the universe … there is no place in existence that you can point to, and say, “God is not THERE.” “If I make my bed in the depths of the ocean …. You are there.”

But still, there is a place where God uniquely dwells. That place is called heaven, and it’s often referred to in the Bible, as the Temple of God. That’s why John uses the term ‘altar’ here. So here are these Christians, whose earthly lives were seemingly snatched away from them – the ones who have died as martyrs … the ones who died from cancer –

Remember, this is not just a place for martyrs to enjoy. Jesus, on the cross – in : There are 2 criminals being executed on crosses, one on either side of Jesus. Life is steadily flowing out of their bodies. One of the criminals uses his last, fading stores of strength to curse the pure Savior and mock him. But the other criminal rebukes his colleague in crime and says, ‘What are you doing? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve …”. Then, this man, who has nothing to offer the King of the universe, except for the filthy life of rebellion that he has lived - - now, with fading strength and labored breath, begs: “Jesus, remember me, when you come into your kingdom.”

If you remember the story – you can’t forget the powerful response: “Truly, I say to you, TODAY you will be with me in Paradise.”

TODAY … WITH ME … IN PARADISE!

Paul speaks the same way in his letters. In – “We would rather be away from the body and at home with the LORD.” So, in other words, if you are a Christian and you die … you’re NOT robbed of your home … you are AT HOME … you true home with the Lord.

, Paul is writing these words when he is facing the very real possibility that he is going to be killed because of his witness to Jesus. The writing is on the wall for him. And what’s his conclusion? “My desire is to depart …. AND BE WITH CHRIST … for that is far better.”

“If they kill me – all they’re going to accomplish is to open the door for me to walk into the immediate presence of my Jesus.” Do yo use the apostle’s assurance here? For anyone who belongs to Christ – who has received salvation by simple faith – trusting in His finished work alone - surrendering themselves to Jesus as Lord as well as Savior. For every Christian … death means direct entry into God’s heavenly presence.

MARC – last breath …. PRESENCE OF JOY AND RELEASE.

Now, not everyone believes this immediate entrance when a Christian dies. The Roman Catholic church believes that, after death, the souls of almost all believers, go to a place called PURGATORY. This isn’t the final destination … more like a bootcamp – so that Christians can be purified from all the sins that haven’t been taken care of yet. It’s like a refiner’s furnace. You die as a lump of dull gold. You belong to Jesus, so you’re gold. But life in this world and the sins you’ve committed since you got saved – they’ve left you dull and hazy. Certainly not fit for a holy God. So, through the suffering of purgatory, you become refined and finally, hopefully, maybe it’ll take a few thousand years – but in the end – the flames of suffering (and it IS suffering), those flames will shine you up until you sparkle – so that God will let you into heaven.

Not much comfort there for anyone who’s mourning the loss of a loved and departed Christian. Marc made big sacrifices for his faith in Jesus Christ. Lorna tells me that when he got back from Vietnam, Marc was going to follow in the family tradition and become a police officer … his schooling was all paid for, because of his service. So he went to the police academy … got certificates … but sensed that the Lord was calling him into pastoral ministry – not police work after all. When he told his superiors that he wanted to change direction - - they couldn’t believe it.

“Why would you want to go from a police officer – with all the power you would have in that position … to become a pastor? There’s no power in being a pastor. Can’t carry handcuffs and a gun as a pastor!” They made him take a psychological test.

Marc was serious. He knew he needed to follow the Lord’s direction – even if that meant giving up human power. That’s just one example.

So he makes sacrifices, he serves the Lord – even when it costs. He suffers. Then he dies … and has to suffer some more? There’s no comfort there.

If that was the teaching of Scripture – then whether you like it or not doesn’t matter. The Bible teaches it – so we accept it. But you need to know that the idea of purgatory doesn’t come from Scripture at all. It comes from the Apocryphal book of 2 Maccabees – a non-inspired book that found its way into the Roman Catholic Bible centuries ago. And the reason why the whole idea of purgatory was developed – is because that church doesn’t believe that we are saved by God’s grace ALONE, THROUGH FAITH ALONE … in the FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST ALONE. The Good News is that Scripture says a big ‘NO’ to any lapse in time between the death of a believer and his step into the presence of Jesus, who gave his blood for the rescue of Marc and every other believer. “To be away from the body is to be at home with the LORD.”

2 THE DEAD ARE FULLY CONSCIOUS AND AWARE

In verse 10, of , John hears the martyrs speak: “O, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

So the martyrs – the deceased Christians in this intermediate heaven – they have memories that continue to work – they know exactly HOW they died and who took their lives.

Have you ever had the sinking feeling, when you think about heaven – and start to wonder, “Will my loved ones recognize me anymore? If our bodies aren’t resurrected until Christ comes back … and then we are raised with new, glorified bodies – does that mean that dad won’t recognize me anymore?”

If you’ve ever questioned that – see the encouragement of this text: “Don’t worry! Memories still work.”

Another implication – Seventh-Day Adventists and others through the history of the church teach something called ‘soul sleep’ – that if you are a Christian and you die – your body lies in the grave and your soul goes into a deep sleep – like a bear hibernating through the winter. The next thing you will be conscious of = is when Jesus returns in His glory and raises your body back to life again - - then you will wake up.

But here are the martyrs, in – they aren’t sleeping. They are conscious – crying to the Lord. “TODAY you will be with me in paradise.”

And notice what the Lord gives to these dead believers. Verse 11: “Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer …”. See the white robes. These believers are CLOTHED. They are not only conscious – they are also substantial. Yes, in this in-between time, we are still waiting for our resurrection bodies – God isn’t finished yet. Oh, but while we wait, we are not invisible phantoms … we are substantial beings, clothed in white robes of purity.

3 DEAD IN CHRIST ARE AWARE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING

The martyrs cry out to God in v. 10, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” The very cry of the saints in paradise shows that they know justice has NOT been done yet. They know that those who ‘dwell on the earth’ – that’s a term pointing to human beings, living in rebellion against God – they are still dominating the world stage – still inflicting pain and persecution against God’s people – their own family.

says much the same thing: “Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us …”

Do you see what that means for us? It means the Marc is part of that great witnessing crowd, with Jesus - - watching as we run the marathon of the Christian life. Damon – beautiful words of remembrance:

“The best baseball coach I know that I can still year yelling, ‘Un-hitch the trailer’ as I stretched a double to a triple (cause I’m slow). Tonight God un-hitched dad’s traler and took his burden. I will see you in heaven someday. I know you’re watching down from above.”

Those are not only beautiful, touching words of love … they are also TRUE words. You dad, your husband Lorna … he has fought the good fight, he has finished the race … and now, at Jesus’ side – he is cheering you on! Encouraging you … loving you, free from pain and decay.

But, wait a minute. There’s a potential problem here. On the one hand, we’re saying that the Christian dead are, right now, in the presence of Jesus, in a place called paradise. But on the other hand – we’re also saying that they remember their suffering. They’re aware of the suffering going on right now! So how can there be joy? How can Marc be fully enjoying heaven … when he sees your suffering – your tears of loss?

You almost get a sense that something isn’t right, by how the Bible states the martyrs’ cry: “They cried out with a LOUD voice …” WAILING!

Let me reassure you, though. Yes – it’s true that as long as this world endures, there will be sin on the earth, and there will be justice crying out to be done as the innocent suffer. But that in no way means that joy is diminished.

In – Paul tells of a time when he was given a special gift from his Savior. Verse 2, “I know a man in Christ who, 14 years ago, was caught up to the third heaven – whether in the body of out of the body, I do not know, God knows …”. I know that this man was caught up to PARADISE!” there’s that word again. Paul is transported to the intermediate heaven. And what does he see there? Verse 4, “… and I heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter ….”

And what was his verdict on what he heard and saw? Verse 7, “So, to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh.”

Do you see what he’s saying? “What I saw there was so SURPASSINGLY GREAT – that I cannot even BEGIN to express what it was like.”

Do you get a sense that Paradise is ‘pretty good?’ So much more than a pleasant ‘holding tank’ to float in while we wait for the resurrection.

In fact the joy of paradise is so great – the wonder of the glory of being in that place with the Lord - that God gave Paul a thorn – some kind of lifelong suffering to keep him from being too conceited by his brief glimpse of what it’s like.

But what about the martyrs’ cry? How can there be joy, when they’re crying out about injustice? How do we deal with that? Let me suggest that you can resolve what seems to be a problem here …. When you recognize the perspective of the believers there. When they ask, ‘How long?’ … they are asking it from a very different perspective that we would have, here.

We’re so short sighted: we’re trapped on this side of eternity - we see evil in the world – wrong seeming to stomp on the right – and we cry out ‘How long, Lord …. Sometimes wondering if He will ever bring justice and peace … wondering whether, maybe, He’s lost His power and the wrong really is going to win.

Not the saints in paradise. Not Marc. They are not uncertain of God’s resolve. Not one bit. Look at how they address the Saviour, in v. 10, “O SOVEREIGN Lord, holy and true …”.

Here they are, face to face with Jesus and they see first hand that He is completely, fully in control of every affair, every detail of the universe. This is not just walking by faith anymore – this is first-hand sight - - God is SOVEREIGN. He Working all things out for His glory and the good of His children …. And it is precisely BECAUSE of their unwavering confidence in God’s character that they recognize … they KNOW His justice is coming, MUST come and cannot anything but FULLY come … they just want it to happen now!

Championship baseball game … standing at the edge of the dugout – the winning run has just been hit – cleared the fence and the runner is coming around third base … headed for home plate …. His teammates are cheering – run, run! Not because they are afraid he’s not going to make it … but because they are so excited – they can’t wait until he crosses the plate and the victory is officially theirs.

Let me finish by turning your attention to the important symbol of verse 11: “Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servant and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.”

White robes are important in Scripture – especially here in Revelation. They show up several times – always as a symbol of being blessed by God Himself, experiencing the joy of His victory.

In 3:4-5, in the letter to the church in Sardis: “Yet you have a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will NEVER blot his name out of the book of life.”

So – white garments mean the absolute certainty of eternal life.

Then, in 7:13, there’s another scene around the throne of God - - one of the elders points to the group and asks, “Who are these, clothed in white robes and from where have they come?” The answer comes in v. 14, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

So white robes are a symbol of purity – and for Christ to give to his ransomed saints, white robes, while they wait for His final judgment to come is to give them comfort – inspiring, tangible evidence that they are purified of every stain through His blood - - and to make it known that they share in His victory. These are VICTORY robes.

It wasn’t very long ago that Marc told me he was planning a trip to California. He told me that he was on a team that had won a little championship and

But there is nothing more difficult that you will experience in your entire life, than to hold the hand of a loved one, as you watch the life fading from them, right before your eyes … Nobody needs to tell you what a broken heart feels like – you know the true meaning of that.

But there is nothing more difficult that you will experience in your entire life, than to stand beside a hospital bed and hold the hand of a loved one, as you watch the life fading from them, right before your eyes … Nobody needs to tell you what a broken heart feels like – you know the true meaning of that.

What makes the heartbreak bearable, an opportunity for praise, even – is when you know that your loved one did, ‘In Christ’. As difficult as it for us to be here this afternoon – what a tremendous comfort …

What makes the heartbreak bearable, an opportunity for praise, even – is when you know that your loved one died, ‘In Christ’. As difficult as it for us to be here this afternoon – what a tremendous comfort …

The Word of God has promise after wonderful promise about the glorious future of the New Heaven and the new Earth. We have the assurance that Marc has gone to be with His Lord and Savior … We have the promises from Jesus, from Paul in and and elsewhere – that Jesus is coming back from heaven in glory to raise Marc’s body …. That you will see him again – and for eternity, you will enjoy heaven’s delight with him.

The Word of God has promise after wonderful promise about the glorious future of the New Heaven and the new Earth.

But do you ever wonder what, exactly, the experience of the Christian loved ones, who have gone before us – what it is … RIGHT NOW? What about the in-between time. points to the future, when there will be a new heaven and a new earth – when the new Jerusalem will come down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride. But that’s in the future. Where is Marc – RIGHT NOW? In the intermediate state – the in-between time – between the end of this earthly life – and the enjoyment of that future, resurrected glory?

One day, last week, by his hospital bed – where Lorna’s been camped out, she asked Marc if he needed anything. He said, “A new body”.

We already know that heaven, at its most basic – is the place where God lives. God lived in heaven in eternity past, before He had created this universe. also points to the NEW heaven that is still to come. But God lives in heaven right now, too. It’s this in-between – we’ll call it, the intermediate heaven, that I want us to focus on, today.

Her: “You’re getting a new body.” “I’m getting a new body! I’m getting a new body!” And it’s true.

And our text, from , deals with this very question. There’s no specific Bible passage that gives a point-by-point lesson about every detail of the intermediate state – but there’s enough information here, as well as in a few other portions of God’s Word, that can give us a glimpse into where the dead in Christ are, right now. And I want to ENCOURAGE you, Landrys, with the comfort of God’s Word, as we deal with the question of where Marc is, right now.

Marc has gone to be with His Lord and Savior … We have the promises from Jesus, from Paul in and and elsewhere – that Jesus is coming back from heaven in glory to raise Marc’s body …. That you will see him again – in his glorified body …and for eternity, you will enjoy heaven’s delight with him.

In the 6th chapter of Revelation, Jesus, the resurrected, exalted Lamb that was slain, takes a scroll, on which is written what God has Sovereignly decreed for world history and the judgments that will bring history to a close. The scroll is sealed with 7 seals to keep its decrees secret. Unless these seals are broken, God’s plan for the universe will be frustrated.

points to the future, when there will be a new heaven and a new earth – when the new Jerusalem will come down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride.

At first, there is no one who is found worthy to break the seals. That means that God’s purposes will not be accomplished. There’s great weeping - - then Jesus steps forward, the LION of the tribe of Judah. Jesus alone is found worthy to break open these seals that unleash God’s judgments on the earth. Now the fifth seal is broken and the scene changes. And that brings us to v. 9 of our text:

But the resurrection hasn’t happened yet. Where is Marc – RIGHT NOW? Where are our loved ones, who have died, in Christ - In the intermediate state – the in-between time – between the end of this earthly life – and the enjoyment of that future, resurrected glory?

When Jesus opens the seal, v. 9 tells us that John, “saw under the altar …”. Doesn’t that sound strange? This is heaven. There’s no need for an altar IN HEAVEN, to offer sacrifices on – the risen Lamb of God is there – the once-for-all sacrifice has been offered and accepted.

We already know that heaven, at its most basic – is the place where God lives. God lived in heaven in eternity past, before He had created this universe. points to the NEW heaven that is still to come. But God lives in heaven right now, too. It’s this in-between – we’ll call it, the intermediate heaven, that I want us to focus on, today.

So, why the mention of an altar? The text tells us why. Read on: “I saw under the altar … the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.”

And our text, from , deals with this very question. There’s no specific Bible passage that gives a point-by-point lesson about every detail of the intermediate state – but there’s enough information here, as well as in a few other portions of God’s Word, that can give us a glimpse into where the dead in Christ are, right now. And I want to ENCOURAGE you, Landrys, with the comfort of God’s Word, as we deal with the question of where Marc is, right now.

These are the souls of those who have been slain. These are Christian martyrs and the mention of the ALTAR here in heaven is to point out that God sees their lives as a type of sacrifice.

CONTEXT: In the 6th chapter of Revelation, Jesus, the resurrected, exalted Lamb that was slain, takes a scroll, on which is written what God has Sovereignly decreed for world history and the judgments that will bring history to a close. The scroll is sealed with 7 seals to keep its decrees secret. Unless these seals are broken, God’s plan for the universe will be frustrated.