Special Church Conference

Thank you guys for coming tonight to be a part of this and show your support. So please bear with me for a word of Prayer.

Play Father we come to you and Lord. We thank you for

just being with all of us and keeping us safe in the midst of this pandemic that's going on in Lord. I Thank you that we are able to gather in your house tonight and Lord. I pray that as we go about this meeting Lord what we say and what we do will bring you honor and Glory. Are we thank you for the opportunities you give us to witness to others and Lord. I pray that you will just continue to lead us and guide us each and every day. We pray the song your most. Holy name. Amen.

Conference administrator in director of administration and finance who who really understands all the ins and outs of what disaffiliation is all about. So, he's here with us tonight. His name is Ian Hall. And so and he's he's a Ian Hall The Brick so you just say

the Secretary of record is in the back, I think. Okay, so you'll be taking minutes and okay good and

Those minutes will need to be sent to me and as well as Ian Hall.

So what we're here about this evening is to vote on a motion to disaffiliate from the United Methodist Church. And so what I need from the floor. Is a motion to disaffiliate?

Thank you and also need a second. We have four seconds. That's good. So as I take that motion first to disaffiliate only numbers of Monroe United Methodist Church may vote. And so that's why we were taking a payroll as you came in. You should have received a ballot if you received a ballot in you're not a member. I just ask that you not vote. And then you also what it takes to pass a disability ation vote as directed by the General Conference of 2019 when this was passed at General Conference. It takes a 2/3 vote. So 2/3 of the vote of the of the members that are present. So and you have to be present to vote.

And then if you choose to disaffiliate then what happens is you have a choice you either join the new church and give up your membership and United Methodist Church. If you choose not to give up your membership in the United Methodist Church. Then you may choose to have your membership transferred to the district office. Or to another United Methodist Church. So you have three choices.

State with the church disestablished year transfer your membership United Methodist membership to the district office or to another United Methodist Church. And so to answer the questions about the dollar amount to disaffiliate and to explain that turn this over to Ian Hall.

Well, good evening.

I'm here.

the general conference 2016

that might be a little better for the microphone. Let me socially distance from you and the General Conference of 2016 basically created this process of disaffiliation to allow all local church to leave the denomination based on a disagreement with the current actions or inactions of the United Methodist Church with regard to human sexuality. and so in effect for the cost that I'm going to go over with you in a few minutes at Monroe UMC if you disaffiliate You basically take or retain. Let's say the real and personal property whether that's tangible or intangible. So in real terms, let's talk about you guys have a parsonage. It's the parsonage. It's the church building. It's the funds you have in the bank. So in exchange for the disaffiliation terms, your assets are transferred into the name of the new entity that would be determined prior to this all taken care of stuff. There is some costs involved. I'll go over the specific costs in a minute to Monroe, but let me talk about how we came to those costs in effect. The general Church came to those costs the annual conference. The Indiana annual conference was given the latitude to add things to the agreement, but there are certain things that were set in place by the general conference the trustees of the Indiana conference chose to basically say the deal that's on the table from the general churches that deal so there are no additional pieces added to this puzzle. In the fact that costs are as follows. The United Methodist Church is funded through a tithe system and the local church is asked to self-report its income from the prior-year and then it is asked to tithe 10% of that income in the following year the fund Ministry above and beyond the local church. And so the disaffiliation document has two ties pieces in it. I'm wanting as we look at the tides payment from a local church when we got back 12 months and it's from the date of the creation of the document. I'm basically the difference between the self-reported ties number and the actual payment is the first calculation. So if a church paid its full size in the 12 months prior to this Arrangement the cost is 0 If I paid 0 it's the full amount and anywhere in between does that one makes sense? Okay, then beyond that that's another 12 months at I so does to tie payments one going back 12 months one going for 12 months in addition to that as a connectional church. We have long-standing pension obligations not like not unlike a lot of corporate America. We have a lot of people that have retired and are yet to retire that have pension do that. We have to in effect a so that's part of the disaffiliation agreement. The term is pro rata fair share, but in effect, we take the total liability for the annual conference and divide it. Not just the number of church wages based. On the revenues from the local church, and it's also based on the salary of the pastor. So in effect The Lodge at church has paid more than the smaller churches that says is a pro-rata Fat Shack off the unfunded pension obligation. And then in addition to that that's also an equivalent payment associated with retiree Health subsidies. So in essence, there are three positive one is the Tie payment one is a partial funding of obligations for pension, and the other is a partial funding of obligations for healthcare. Once those payments have been made. The church is no longer responsible for future payments associated with pension and health care. So it's basically a separation at the time of disaffiliation and then m they local church would then be responsible for any future pension or health for any future clergy person, but they obligations that stand from past appointments now longest and So far, does that all make sense? Okay. I want go into the detail of the mathematics of how this all works. But to say if people would like the formula I would like the detail. I can certainly go over that. We're not hiding anything. I'm just going to talk in round numbers now so that we we don't need that to sleep cuz I get excited about numbers of the people down the disaffiliation agreements and that was put together the calculation for the Paid a portion of tithe from the prior 12 months is $7,645. And the tide moving forward for the next 12 months would be $16,256. So that's the too tight payments. This is the one we take a deep breath the unfunded pension obligation for Monroe. UMC is $97,207. And the pro rata fair share of the health insurance subsidy obligation is $16,111. In essence when we Halle all that up, we've got rounding and a disaffiliation obligation of $134,000. now when it comes to the timing of disaffiliation The general church has set a final deadline. That final deadline is December 31st of 2023.

That's when any church that wanted to disaffiliate what half to basically have disaffiliated. And in order to be compliant with this 22 page document and there's a process that we start but disaffiliation basically happens when our attorneys and finish the paperwork and funds are transferred now. Covid-19 has changed a lot of the world hasn't it? I'm one of the things that has done is change the timing of our annual conference. So we were supposed to have an annual conference in June. The one thing I really want you to hear is we can go through this whole process. But it has to be affirmed by a vote of annual conference for it to be complete. So leading to annual conference my team and you guys we would have to get all of our eyes daughters in our T's crossed. And we will have transferred funds we all signed paperwork, but until the annual conference meets and has an official vote. This isn't really complete. So that's just the the caveat that built into the document is approval by the annual conference. We have an annual conference in. Seven seven or eight days that is when the and don't panic we're not trying to get you to do it for that the annual conference trustees meet at that meeting and that would be where any diss affiliations were approved. There are no disaffiliation is currently on the table to be approved. The next full session of annual conference is next June. and so Ultimately, the final approval would happen then as they said we could get all of our ducks in a row. There's a annual conference session in October, but it's just a one-day session and it's very unlikely that would be able to get a trustee meeting fitted into that schedule what I can guarantee you is that the next time the annual conference meets in Fall IE Doom. This would be on the ballot. Has anyone have any questions about what I've spoken to this far?

Yes, sir.

not now, so yes.

Yep.

So not a legal counsel is that we don't touch his money at all that we ask Rohit. prior to the exclamation of the annual conference

it would be done this year.

And I cannot guarantee that.

So we have to wait to hear back if they were able to.

That is a really good question. I cannot make that decision person with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

In absence to the gentleman's question. Basically one of the steps is the payment. All that oldest policy says is what the payment has to happen 10 days before the meeting.

business days

Well in this if we're saying that June is the next day before June.

Now the way the document is currently written it and the 12 months old and 12 months back does not assume frankly when this was written. It assumed that 12 months would be like January Juan going back here. And yeah, yeah, so unfortunately a lot has changed. the one I'd like you to hear is that the time Horizon for this is not your opportunity is not going to run out anytime soon. IE until

December 31st of 2023 disaffiliation is an option.

That is a really good question, sir.

This is New Territory. I would not envisage. The annual conference session voting something down, I think. DSM actors is being clear that we're here to help you and your decision is your decision. I'm somewhat handcuffed by the fact that the general Church's policy says that the annual conference needs to vote. So icon again, I can't speak. I don't get to tell them how to vote. However, I have invested a lot of time in this process and would be rather frustrated if A local church had chosen to disaffiliate and then the annual conference. Voted to not affirm that but I can't guarantee you anything unfortunately. And I guess to your answer what would happen? That's the why we would ask her the funds. We would give you your funds back and the process would be null and void.

I can't promise anything. I just don't see that as as a reality. I'm think it's part of the process, but it seems that the process. loses its legitimacy in the event the they say no. Say more than that.

No, no, no the trustees facilitate the transaction. That will be a m. A report of the trustees that say Church a b and c has requested that they disaffiliate from the denomination. And I can tell you yet, whether we will vote Church a church be or church. See if I had to guess I would say it will be. A ticket these charges would like to disaffiliate from the United Methodist Church vote. Yay or nay.

Most of the time I'm what I would say Sarah's I certainly wouldn't be speaking against this.

You'll be making presentation.

they point out that I probably be up there making the presentation saying these churches would like to disaffiliate.

It cannot be a consent calendar item so I can be just a rubber stamp and have to be an actual vote, but I wouldn't anticipate people saying. But I've been surprised before.

Well, that's a rip.

Set we have fixed that problem with these little devices that everybody get issued as they walk in the room and it throws up the at results on a screen. partly because of that ambiguity when it came to yes or no sew it's a computerized process.

Next year and this is why my commitment to Monroe walls that once we created this document it would not change.

I have some white and I'm pretty pretty committed to saying that's the deal that we could look at the numbers and the the thing about the unfunded obligations is they change and frankly they're getting worse. So it's it's beneficial for you that they locked in that this right the Actuarial tables keep on changing and the costs go up and down but they generally going up not down as far as the ties play that would be based on what level of ties Monroe had paid in the past 12 months. So I guess my commitment to you would be these. We agreed on these numbers and the numbers all numbers.

The at that point you would be the way I'm looking at it ma'am. Is that once we go through this process your disaffiliate identity and then has to be approved by annual conference. But in a nutshell, yes, you would be a disa few would have disaffiliated from the connection of United Methodist churches. And therefore that wouldn't be the the associated costs that we share is a denomination to do ministry outside of the local church.

Yes.

It's going to be an online meeting which is going to be super interesting. We're going to em that rock three locations around the state that people can gather and limited numbers if if they would like to I'm and then the actual event is going to be cybercast from Indiana Wesleyan University in Marion. And so I will be on stage talking to no one or everybody depending on how you look at it. It's going to be broadcast. But yeah, so and that that meeting is going to happen.

I would predict for that meeting is going to happen. I'm learning the lots of things change regularly. But yeah, I would anticipate that meeting happening.

Ryanne and frankly, it's not just the money. We need to do the title work. We need to make sure all of our paperwork was in order.

The other way to look at that says we can do all the paperwork the funds need to be available 10 days before. A conference. I mean it's it's

the deal is done when the funds are transferred in the paperwork is created but

I think the honest answer there is you get some of the paperwork you wouldn't get title to the property until it. I think it would be remiss for us and you for us to do title work. That would then maybe have to be undone. That's a hypothetical but I think the title the title what could be ready? We're just working in a in a system. That is very methodical.

That's it.

I think the process is up in the air.

Right. I'm not trying to be the bad guy here. I'm just

the wild card is the annual conference then I guess all I'm saying is I don't think that's much of a wild card.

map

No, they will my commitment to you is the numbers don't change.

innocence probably my mistake, but he's not really good until 2023 cuz basically the concept was we create an offer they be be static. The only thing that would would change if you made a higher ties if you made tie payments, it would reduce this bill.

That's a question for Dave yet. So.

Asean said really? And I've been talking to the Pastor Dave. We're just here to help. We don't we don't have the proverbial dog in the hunt. We have we have things that we have to follow that we have to do. And because that comes from General Conference, that's where this in and so we're just hear what I heard Ian say and Rec ven. What is as long as we have the money 10 days prior to annual conference next year. So what he said was you can keep your money. 10 days before we just need is that correct that it's cracked. We just need the money 10 days before as much of the paperwork signed as possible as he said it would be irresponsible on our part to have you to do the title work until feel the deals done. So and again, we don't have any say about annual conference approval that came down from General Conference. So we have to follow that rule. We don't have a choice legally. We do not have a choice. So all we're trying to do is walk you through the process and keep everything legal. So no one can come back. next year or 4 years from now and say I don't like the fact that we left the United Methodist Church if you vote to disaffiliate, I don't like that fact and the only thing a judge will look at Because the judge won't care what the vote was here, but the judge will care if we followed our rules. No, I'm not saying anybody would come back and do that and say I don't like that fact but to keep everything safe and legal. That's what we that's what we have to do. And that's why we follow the rules to protect you. how to protect us

They're asking, you know what it leave from.

In a roundabout way, that's what I was trying to say Thank you. So it's so what you have to do is you have to literally go out and you have to take everything off. From your letterhead to what's on the building you have to take all that off anyting the symbol of United Methodist Church. You have to take that off your building. And so then you operate.

As you're going to operate. And if he and his already stated, I think you said this. basically You don't pay any more time for the annual conference.

Know if you vote to disaffiliate. So if you're voting to disaffiliate in the fact, we already factored in that you're paying the Thai so it's included in the number. Yeah, so

Innocents, yes. Knowing that 10 days before we need to ask. We need to wire escrow funds.

Yeah, and I since we can start the paperwork. And there's a little bit of you don't know me. So why would you trust me but that there's a certain level of faith and trust involved in this process.

There's a lot of work going into the calculations and the figuring out. I think it's is Equitable as it can be that number is not going to change. and M just that one level lights. We live in a bureaucratic system.

But we're not going to be taking anything. I don't I don't I don't know what I do with them.

nns, once it's It is. Yeah. I mean if there's a wishing many United Methodist Church is Right throughout the state with a carved into the side of the building. That's that's a historic piece of the puzzle. We're not going to be it's more about intellectual property and moving forward that the cross and Flame is a registered trademark and that it's part of the United Methodist Church am but I don't see Xannies to be taking hymnals and then I kind of stuff. And in essence is going to be a checklist that my team and your team go through them with we done this yesterday done this so we done this how we done this.

And then I mean where I think we're all on the same page about Jesus right and that we need to share the message of Christ. And so what they are doing that in or out of the United Methodist Church was still sharing the gospel. And sometimes we don't really forget that but we concentrate on this and we don't concentrate on that. So

get out of the Bible.

And I think that's the very reason we have this dress at.

Are you ready to call for the question?

Somebody make a note if you're if you're ready to make if you're ready for no more questions, I'll me will take more questions. But if you're ready for the for the motion Someone call for the question to be okay forgot I need a second. Thank you. So what you want to do is fill out your ballot. I saw on there that it says optional you may put your name on there and then if you would At three groups if if you if these two groups or just passed them to the middle. And then this group over here past them this way. We'll collect them and how this will work. In a moment, I'll talk about that.

We're going to eat you're going to come out here and you you can be over the secretary and whoever's going to be with me you love me.

So that's the secretary to come forward the secretary and is is there a trustee or Pastor Dave? Are you going to be one of the counters?

when the trustees here

a trustee

if you'd bring it if you'd bring the balance down front.

So your secretary and I will count the ballots. It looks like Pastor Dave and Ian will. Watches we will count them up and then we'll report them. So in the meantime anybody want to sing or preach have at it.

Just take some.

Yeah, we'll just pray to piles.

57 how many people do you have?

58 people like that $59 by my count

go ahead should be 20.

You said you had 58. Such as I get this time.

10 R6 there 2 p.m.

258 to mm read 58 register. So 56 yes to mail.

Okay via vote was 56. Yes to know and we had 5858 people register. So there's no mercy not right. So it's 56 yes to disaffiliate to know to disaffiliate. So the motion passes.

so what I like to do is just thank you and as You're I guess at this point your former superintendent. It's been my privilege and pleasure to serve you and to bring me be part of bringing a Pastor David here to lead you and so that the so thank you for that opportunity to serve you. So I know I need someone to close make a motion to close the charge conference. Church conference add a second. Thank you. all in favor So you don't want to keep beating? Okay. Your sister is much too much fun.

Pastor David

Spend a moment, thanking Dave Indian because I can said to me, you know what the challenge in this has been the goalposts keep moving on him. So he's like, you know, I know he's trying just like Dave's trying to help us find the finish line of where we're trying to go, but the problem is it keeps moving on them, too. So I appreciate their willingness to help us work through this process, and I just want to close the meeting tonight in prayer for them as they continue to work through a lot of these things. So please join me in prayer. Most gracious heavenly father as we come to you tonight Lord. We thank you for being with us and guiding US during this time of discussing these things and talking about them and Lord. We're just trusting you as you guide us into our future. And Lord, I want to lift up Ian and Dave to you Lord as they have a difficult job. They have a challenging job and Lord. I Thank You for their willingness to help churches walk through this process Lord. I pray that you will bless them in it and that you'll continue to guide the minute and Lord that you'll just give them wisdom and Lord made the churches that they deal with be filled with grace. Also Lord and that you would bless both sides of this to the point that it wouldn't be seen as this side versus that side, but Lord as fellow Christians working together to accomplish what God has for each bus in the way that God has called us to do it. And Lord, I pray you'll just continue to guide us and bless us continue to guide them and bless them as we work towards the future in your name. We pray. Amen.

Thank you for coming you can go home now.