Complementarianism wout heirarchy talk.
Sermon • Submitted
0 ratings
· 14 viewsNotes
Transcript
Her approach:
Her approach:
She begins by appealing to fear.
Those who are complemntarian are afraid of disobeying God’s word
those who are egalitarian are afraid of oppression.
Key argument:
Gen 3:16 means:
the women’s desire — is a longing for her husband (not contrary to)
men ruling over women is a result of the fall, not God’s design.
Problems with this:
she opts to go to Song of Solmon, vs. Genesis 4 to argue for her interpretation of the word “against” or “contrary” vs. “for”
This is not warranted, it makes the most sense to look at Genesis 4 to understand this verse.
She is not addressing Gen 2 and the creative order and Paul’s arguments to the Corinthians. She banks on Gen 1:28ff to the fact that women and men are to lead together, which is true, just doesn’t specify how. The model is the family.
Three Questions in three eras:
Three Questions in three eras:
Does God allow women to lead (both men and women?
Does God allow women to teach authoritatively (both men and women)?
Does God want men and women leading together?
Genesis 1-3
Genesis 1-3
10 An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels.
“Excellent” is a term for military aid.
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Hold fast — clings to for help
18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”
ezer — help!, warrior
16 To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.”
song of solomon — desire to be with her husband, to long for
Her desire is “for” her husband
“he shall rule over you”
is this a result of the fall
or is this prescriptive
Her contention is that God created man and women to rule together in harmony. But becuase of the fall, the harmony was broken and heirarchy resulted.
but how does this address the created order?
She doesn’t answer her three questions here.
She says that God intention was for men and women to lead together.
True, but this doesn’t specify how.
Isn’t it rooted in the Trinity?
Jesus willingly submits to the father.
Women Leaders in Israel:
Women Leaders in Israel:
Miriam -
20 Then Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a tambourine in her hand, and all the women went out after her with tambourines and dancing. 21 And Miriam sang to them: “Sing to the Lord, for he has triumphed gloriously; the horse and his rider he has thrown into the sea.”
Leads the people in worship?
1 Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Cushite woman whom he had married, for he had married a Cushite woman. 2 And they said, “Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has he not spoken through us also?” And the Lord heard it.
She says that the Lord doesn’t refute this
15 So Miriam was shut outside the camp seven days, and the people did not set out on the march till Miriam was brought in again.
Miriam is a leader and prophet before Israel.
Deborah
Deborah
4 Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. 5 She used to sit under the palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the people of Israel came up to her for judgment. 6 She sent and summoned Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh-naphtali and said to him, “Has not the Lord, the God of Israel, commanded you, ‘Go, gather your men at Mount Tabor, taking 10,000 from the people of Naphtali and the people of Zebulun. 7 And I will draw out Sisera, the general of Jabin’s army, to meet you by the river Kishon with his chariots and his troops, and I will give him into your hand’?” 8 Barak said to her, “If you will go with me, I will go, but if you will not go with me, I will not go.” 9 And she said, “I will surely go with you. Nevertheless, the road on which you are going will not lead to your glory, for the Lord will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman.” Then Deborah arose and went with Barak to Kedesh.
14 And Deborah said to Barak, “Up! For this is the day in which the Lord has given Sisera into your hand. Does not the Lord go out before you?” So Barak went down from Mount Tabor with 10,000 men following him.
She leads men.
Does this make it normative?
Women of Abel
Women of Abel
15 And all the men who were with Joab came and besieged him in Abel of Beth-maacah. They cast up a mound against the city, and it stood against the rampart, and they were battering the wall to throw it down. 16 Then a wise woman called from the city, “Listen! Listen! Tell Joab, ‘Come here, that I may speak to you.’ ” 17 And he came near her, and the woman said, “Are you Joab?” He answered, “I am.” Then she said to him, “Listen to the words of your servant.” And he answered, “I am listening.” 18 Then she said, “They used to say in former times, ‘Let them but ask counsel at Abel,’ and so they settled a matter. 19 I am one of those who are peaceable and faithful in Israel. You seek to destroy a city that is a mother in Israel. Why will you swallow up the heritage of the Lord?” 20 Joab answered, “Far be it from me, far be it, that I should swallow up or destroy! 21 That is not true. But a man of the hill country of Ephraim, called Sheba the son of Bichri, has lifted up his hand against King David. Give up him alone, and I will withdraw from the city.” And the woman said to Joab, “Behold, his head shall be thrown to you over the wall.” 22 Then the woman went to all the people in her wisdom. And they cut off the head of Sheba the son of Bichri and threw it out to Joab. So he blew the trumpet, and they dispersed from the city, every man to his home. And Joab returned to Jerusalem to the king.
she says: she speaks with authority, leads.
this is not convincing. Does not make it normative.
Huldah, the Prophetess
Huldah, the Prophetess
14 So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asaiah went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe (now she lived in Jerusalem in the Second Quarter), and they talked with her. 15 And she said to them, “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: ‘Tell the man who sent you to me, 16 Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will bring disaster upon this place and upon its inhabitants, all the words of the book that the king of Judah has read. 17 Because they have forsaken me and have made offerings to other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the work of their hands, therefore my wrath will be kindled against this place, and it will not be quenched. 18 But to the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of the Lord, thus shall you say to him, Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: Regarding the words that you have heard, 19 because your heart was penitent, and you humbled yourself before the Lord, when you heard how I spoke against this place and against its inhabitants, that they should become a desolation and a curse, and you have torn your clothes and wept before me, I also have heard you, declares the Lord. 20 Therefore, behold, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace, and your eyes shall not see all the disaster that I will bring upon this place.’ ” And they brought back word to the king.
she’s a prophetess and advises kings
what does this say?
Esther
Esther
Esther leads and speaks with authority.
This is a misrepresentation
She is under a king and given an opportunity
Other Notable Women:
Other Notable Women:
Hagar, Sarah, Ziphorah, ministering women, daughters of Zeophehad, Rahab, Achsah, Yael, Samson’s mom, Ruth, Hannah, Sheerah, Abigail, Lady Wisdom.
None of this is convincing that it is normative for women to lead men.
Her three questions:
Her three questions:
affirmative in her opinion
Still doesn’t make it normative, in fact this is a very small % of leadership in the OT.
The NT
The NT
She argues against ungodly prayers and the divisions in the temple.
which is true that this is not from God but man made traditions which Jesus constantly Jesus is correcting.
Jesus 12 men disciples
she argues that this is simply to represent the 12 tribes of Israel.
But if Jesus really wanted to establish egalitarianism, why wouldn’t he have done it then?
Just the fact that Jesus ministries to women and they provide for his needs doesn’t mean that Jesus’ intention is that they would Leaders in this sense.
The Samaritan woman, jesus sends her out.
Mary & Martha
just becuase Jesus has women disciples doesn’t mean that they were meant to be Elders.
She argues that becuase in that culture women could not be disciples of rabbis, when Jesus invited them to be his disciples that somehow this translates to leadership? not it just means the way is open to all, it is correective.
The Ressurrection
it was women who discovered the empty tomb and told the disciples
Jesus chooses women to witness his resurrection
the women lead the mean and teach the men about the resurrection.
I don’t find this convincing.
The Great Commission
is given to men and women — the disciples
women were amongst the disciples at pentecost.
Priscilla, Junia,
Priscilla, Junia,
1 After this Paul left Athens and went to Corinth. 2 And he found a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to leave Rome. And he went to see them, 3 and because he was of the same trade he stayed with them and worked, for they were tentmakers by trade.
18 After this, Paul stayed many days longer and then took leave of the brothers and set sail for Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila. At Cenchreae he had cut his hair, for he was under a vow. 19 And they came to Ephesus, and he left them there, but he himself went into the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews.
24 Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, competent in the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.