Week 14: John 5:1-30; In Defense of Jesus.

Week 14: John 5:1-30 I started this series by saying that everything in life depends on getting Jesus right. So far in the book of John, we've read about how Jesus is the lamb of God, the preexistent one, the savior of the world. He is also God. Now, how can Jesus be God, and the Father be God? Are there two Gods-- bi-theism? Does God switch back and forth, between being Jesus, and the Father, and the Spirit? Is Jesus equal to the Father? Or is the Father greater than he is? At this point in church history, we are all in general agreement about how to explain these questions. But the answers the church has reached were fought through hard battles, as it tried to decide what views were okay for Christians to believe, and what views excluded you from Christ, and his church. And evidence of how difficult these issues are is found in the creeds, and in how much space they have to give to the questions of who Jesus is, and how he is related to the Father. Take the Nicene Creed for example ( https://www.xavier.edu/jesuitresource/online-resources/prayer-index/catholic-prayers#:~:text=Back%20to%20Top-,Apostles%20Creed,His%20only%20Son%20Our%20Lord%2C&text=He%20ascended%20into%20Heaven%2C%20and,the%20living%20and%20the%20dead. ): I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, [monotheism, not bi-theism] Maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. [Look at how much space Jesus gets compared to the Father] I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is adored and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. The early creeds were designed to serve two main purposes. The first was to teach Christians what was "orthodox" belief. What is it that you have to believe about the Trinity-- Father, Son, and Spirit? The second was to exclude groups of people who didn't follow these teachings. There's lots of things about Jesus you can get wrong-- things that, if you believe them, exclude you from the church (and Jesus). Maybe you think that Jesus is only man. Or only God. Maybe you think he didn't really die. Maybe you think he is a created being. Maybe you think Jesus is God, distinctively from the Father being God. And so you hold to bi-theism, and not monotheism. Our passage today, John 5:1-30, contains John's most detailed explanation of the relationship between God the Father, and God the Son. In it, Jesus (and AJ) addresses the two main (Judean) criticisms about himself. The first, is that Jesus is a sinner because he breaks the Sabbath. The second, is that Jesus makes himself equal to God-- and equality, in their minds, means independence from the Father. Now, the story technically runs all the way from John 5:1 to the end of the chapter. But this is a huge chapter, and complicated, and talks about things that are at the heart of our faith. So today we will just do the first 30 verses. One last thing-- I'm not really going to try to do much of an application today. Today, it will be enough just to better understand your Father, and your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Verse 1: (1) After these things, there was a feast of the Judeans, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. When we read "after these things" in the gospel of John, that's AJ's signal to us that we are beginning a new episode (see 6:1). So there's a feast of the Judeans-- we aren't told which one, because it's not important-- and Jesus goes up to Jerusalem. And at this point, we should understand what this means. Jerusalem is part of Judea, and the home of Judeans. This is Jesus' home as well. But his own people (as a whole), we remember from the prologue, don't "receive/welcome" him (John 1:11). Nothing good happens to Jesus in Jerusalem. Verse 2-4: (2) Now1, there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate, a pool, the one being called in Aramaic (Hebrew?)2 "Bethesda," five porticos having. (3) In these a great number of the sick/weak ones were lying3 down-- blind, lame, paralyzed. And it's here, that your English Bibles are going to differ. Some of you are missing verse 4. But if you're reading a KJV or Young's, you read this: 3 In these [the porticos] lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. 4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had. A number of early manuscripts are missing the tail end of verse 3, and even more are missing all of verse 4 (the bolded/underlined section). And so textual critics ask themselves, is it more likely that this section was added later to the story, or is it more likely that some early copyist deleted it out for some reason, deliberately or accidentally? And modern text critical scholars have for the most part decided that verse 4 shouldn't be part of your Bibles-- if they include it, it's as a footnote. Where I get stuck with this, is that the story doesn't really make sense without it. Imagine dozens, or hundreds, of sick people hanging out at this pool. Why would they do that? We can think about big cities like L.A., and understand that the homeless tend to cluster in certain neighborhoods. Maybe they live there because no one bothers them, or there's a food kitchen nearby, or a place for them to sleep inside when it rains, or the police don't bother them there. But that's not really what's going on here. All these sick people are gathered here, because this is a place of healing. And this is the only verse in the story that really explains why it's a place of healing. [And verse 7 assumes that we've read verse 4]. So my gut is that this was originally part of the story (and even if it's not, it correctly explains what these people are doing here). So in one particular place in Jerusalem, there's lots and lots of sick and weak people. And the reason they are all gathered here, is because an angel of God, every once in a while, stirs the water of the pool, and someone gets healed. And if you're one of the sick ones-- blind, lame, paralyzed-- you hope that you can beat everyone else into the water. It's like winning a lottery-- if winning the lottery depended on your watchfulness, and speed. Verse 5: (5) Now,4 a certain man was5 there, 38 years being in his sickness. (6) This man6, Jesus seeing lying there, and knowing that a long time already he is sick, says to him, "Do you want, healthy, to become? (7) The sick one answered him, "Lord/sir, a man I don't have, in order that whenever the water is stirred up, he would put me into the pool." Now, while I am coming, another before me goes down." The sick one would like to become healthy. But what he needs, is a man to help him. We read this, and we smile. Here, the sick one is face to face with someone who is not just a man-- someone who is God himself. And Jesus is very good at healing people, right? Verse 8: (8) Jesus says to him, "Rise up. Take your mat, and walk!," (9) and immediately, he became healthy-- the man-- and he picked up his mat, and he walked. And so here again in the gospel of John, we see a sign. Jesus is the one who gives life. He offers people eternal life, and he offers people physical life. And the two types of life, really aren't any different. Life, is life. If Jesus can offer the one, he can offer the other. And Jesus can absolutely offer physical healing. At this point, our story takes a turn (and we should ignore the verse divisions, and respect the "de"; Now,): Now7, it was8 a Sabbath on that day. (10) Then,9 the Judeans were10 saying to the one having been healed, "A Sabbath it is, and it isn't allowed for you to pick up your mat." The Judeans see the man walking around, and they know that he is breaking the Sabbath, according to their own understanding of what's allowed. And so they challenge him on that. Verse 11-12: (11) Now, he answered them, "The one making me healthy-- that one to me said, 'Pick up your mat, and walk!'" (12) Then, they asked him, "Who is the man-- the one saying to you, "Pick up and walk." Anyone who hears verse 11, should find themselves asking a very obvious question. It's a question that begs to be asked. "What were you healed from?" The man himself makes a big deal about his healing. But notice what the Judeans ask. They strip out that part of it completely-- they don't care about the healing. All they can focus on is the breaking of the Sabbath. "Who told you... to you break the Sabbath?" Verse 13: (13) Now, the one being healed didn't know who it is. For Jesus withdrew, a crowd being in the place. (14) After these things, Jesus finds him in the temple, and he said to him, "LOOK! Healthy you have become. No longer sin, in order that worse to you, something may happen." Let's pause here. What is the relationship between sin and sickness? In answering that question, many Christians turn to John 9. And let's just cheat ahead, and read the first 3 verses (ESV): 9 As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" 3 Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. Not every "sickness"-- being blind, or lame, or paralyzed, or anything else-- is the result of sin. Right? We maybe don't quite know what to do with verse 3-- that presents its own difficulties. But we can't look at sick people, and assume they are sick because they've sinned. I say this, but it's not the last word on the subject, either. Let's turn to 1 Corinthians 11:29-30: 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.[h] It used to be that the Lord's Supper, was actually a supper-- it was a meal, kind of like a potluck. And the rich people were getting there early, with lots of (their own) food, and gorging themselves. And the poor Christians were showing up later, because they had to get their work done (=slaves; management is always done at 5, right? lol), and there was nothing left for them. When they were celebrating the Lord's supper as individuals, and not as a church, they were "eating and drinking without discerning the body." And when the wealthy Christians did that, they were bringing judgment on themselves-- sickness, on themselves. And that word "weak" here, is the same word used in John 5. So when you sin, and you don't repent, you are leaving yourself open to sickness and weakness and disease. Whether that's because you've created a hole in your spiritual armor, and let Satan attack you (Eph. 6; don't ditch your breastplate of righteousness), or because you are bringing judgment on yourself (1 Cor. 11:30), or because God is sending disease against you (Numbers 12:1-15)-- I don't know. There's more than one way to view all of this. I'm less sure about how to explain it all than I used to be. But there's often a close link between sickness and sin. And I've found, personally, that the cleaner and more holy I live toward God, the less I get sick. And so, returning to John 5:14, Jesus ends his interaction with the now-healthy man by warning him. "Stop sinning, so that nothing worse may happen to you." Jesus' words should make us sit up in our seats, and frighten us. What could be worse than being paralyzed for 38 years, watching everyone around you getting healed? You should read that, and think, "I need to stop sinning." (I think the answer to what's worse, is found in John 5:29-- the ones practicing evil rise to a resurrection of judgment). Verse 15: (15) The man left, and he proclaimed/declared11 to the Judeans, that Jesus, The one making him healthy12 was, (16) and for this reason, the Judeans were persecuting13 Jesus, because these things14 he was doing on the Sabbath. In verse 16, AJ tells us why he included this story. This story about the paralyzed man is just one picture of the kind of things Jesus did on the Sabbath. This man, and this healing, was not an isolated event; Jesus healed lots of people on the Sabbath ("was doing" is an imperfective, open-ended verb). And the Judeans responded to these healings by.... what? Did they rejoice when they saw a man healed after 38 years of paralysis? Did they praise God? Did they understand that this was a sign, revealing that Jesus is the one who gives life? No. They respond by persecuting Jesus. So AJ tells us, this is Reason #1 for why Judeans persecuted him. Verses 17-18 are a little awkward. Jesus here "answers" the Judeans, who haven't been talking to him at all here. But these verses do two things: (1) They tell us why Jesus heals on Sabbaths, and (2) they give us a second reason why Judeans persecuted Jesus: (17) Now, he answered them, "My Father until now is working, and I am working." (18) Then, for this reason, even more, the Judeans were seeking to kill him, because not only he was breaking the Sabbath, but also his own Father, he was calling [the] God, equal himself making with God. How we understand verses 17-18, makes a huge difference in how we read the rest of the chapter. And, more importantly, in how we understand who Jesus really is, and his relationship to the Father. Let's reread verse 17: "My Father until now is working, and I am working." In Genesis 2:2-3, we are told that God rested on the seventh day-- on Saturday. And in doing that, God provided us with an example to follow. We are to rest on the seventh day, as He did. Now, it was generally understood that God didn't completely rest on the Sabbath. He couldn't-- because there are things that only God can do, that need to be done. One rabbi (Rabbi Johanan; TalBab Taanith 2a; discussion in Raymond Brown, 217) said that God has three "keys" that He doesn't entrust to anyone else. The first key, is the key to rain. [Brown doesn't expand on this, but I'm guessing the idea is that God makes sure that no one can flood the earth, since He promised that wouldn't happen.] The second key, is the key to life. Every human, and every animal, has life in it because God gives that life to them (Gen. 1:30; 2:7). Only God gives life (2 Kings 5:7; 2 Maccabees 7:22-23). Since things, and people, are born on the Sabbath, God must work on the Sabbath. The third "key," is the key of judgment. When people die, they are judged for what how they've lived. That's not something God entrusts to someone else. And so, since people die on the Sabbath, God must judge on the Sabbath as well. So Judeans all understood the idea that God works, even on the Sabbath. He has to, because all of creation depends on his continued working (cf. Psalm 104, esp. verse 21). That's not controversial. What's controversial, is how Jesus applies that to himself. Jesus says, "My Father works, and I (also) work." Jesus says if it's okay for his Father to work on the Sabbath, then it's okay for Jesus. Is that how it's supposed to work? How do you know whether or not you're allowed to work on the Sabbath? Judeans would say-- we would normally say-- you have to look at what God has said-- what He has commanded-- about the Sabbath. God commanded (for OT people), the Sabbath is a day of rest. And so they "had to" ("got to") rest. But Jesus says, I'm looking at what my Father does on the Sabbath. The commands that everyone else has to follow-- are apparently not for him. He looks at what his Father does, and copies his example. And when Jesus says this, the Judeans charge Jesus with "making himself equal with God." Jesus is rejecting his Father's authority, and rising up as his equal. ------------------------------------------------------ Charles Talbert, Reading John, 124: "The language 'making himself equal with God' echoes Jewish belief that a son who rejects paternal authority is one who makes himself equal with his father (cf. Phil. 2:6-8). The Jews, then, take Jesus' claim to unity of function with the Father to mean equality of status, that is, independence from the Father's authority (equality=independence)." -------------------------------------------------------- The Judeans hear Jesus words, and think Jesus doesn't view himself as being "under" God, required to obey God's commands. He rejects God's commands, and rises up against God, and makes himself equal to God. Any time you disobey your Father in heaven, you are making yourself equal to God. You've decided that what God wants, and what God's commanded, doesn't matter. You are going to lift yourself up, and make yourself equal to God, capable of choosing right and wrong, and what you will do. But your Father in heaven is supposed to be obeyed, and honored. And when the Judeans see Jesus breaking the Sabbath-- and commanding others to do the same (!)-- they see a terrible sinner. The rules everyone else has to follow, Jesus thinks don't apply to him, because God is his Father in a special, unique way. So who is Jesus? The Judeans see Jesus, and they think two things about him: (1) Jesus is a sinner. (2) Jesus is someone who is making himself equal to God. If the Judeans are right, then they should (by OT standards) persecute Jesus. Part of being zealous for God, and God's law, is defending God's people from blasphemous sinners (Numbers 25:6-11; Phil 3:6). And, if they are right, then Christianity is a dangerous heresy to be stamped out, and coming to Jesus is the worst decision you could ever make. Are they right? In the rest of chapter 5, Jesus defends himself against these two criticisms. Verse 19: (19) Then,15 Jesus answered, and he was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the son isn't able to do from himself anything, except only what he sees the Father doing." For whatever That One does-- these things-- also the son lik ewise does. (20) For the Father loves the son, and everything, He shows him that he is doing, and greater than these works, he will show him, in order that you shall be amazed. Let's pause here. "Back in the old days," sons always learned their father's trade. If your dad was a carpenter, you'd grow up learning how to use saws, and lathes, and sandpaper. If your dad was a mechanic, you'd grow up in the garage, learning how to diagnose what's broken and how to fix it. A good father, when he had time, showed his son everything as he did it. In [a nearby town], there's a hardware store where the parents are maybe in their 40s, and their daughter in her 20s. Her parents love her, and they've shown her everything, so that she can do (and does) everything they can. That's the kind of relationship Jesus has with his Father. From the beginning of the creation of the world, Jesus has seen his Father at work. And the Father has shown him everything He does ["showing" seems to mean, "showing how to do something]. And Jesus, when he does anything, copies what he's seen his Father do. So who is Jesus? Jesus says, using an analogy they'd all understand, I'm a faithful apprentice. A faithful son. So Jesus isn't "making himself" anything. Whenever Jesus does anything, he's simply doing what the Father has shown him. Starting in verse 21, Jesus becomes specific about what this means (using "for" statements). There are two particular areas, where he copies what his Father does (and I think we should maybe read the two "for"s as parallel, but I'm not sure-- they are closely related): (21) For just as the Father raises the dead, thus also the Son, whoever he wishes, he makes alive. (22) For the Father doesn't judge anyone, but every judgment he has given to the son, in order that all shall honor the son, just as they honor the Father. The two things that Jesus does, because he copies his Father's example, and his Father has shown him how they work, are these: (1) Jesus gives life. And he gives life to whoever he wishes. [If you really chew on that, and think about it in connection to how he just gave life to the paralyzed man... this is huge]. (2) Jesus judges. That Jewish rabbi said that there are 3 keys that God doesn't entrust to anyone else-- and two are more basic than the others-- the key to life, and the key to judgment. Jesus says, the Father gave him both of these keys. Why did the Father give Jesus these things? The Father loves his son, and the Father wants his son to receive honor. Jesus continues: The one not honoring the son, doesn't honor the Father-- the One Who Sent him.16 (24) Truly, truly, I say to you, that the one, my word, hearing and giving allegiance to The One Sending me has eternal life, and into judgment doesn't come, but has passed from death into life. Let's pause here. Normal English Bibles will translate verse 24 talking about how people have to "believe in God." Every Judean "believes in" God. So I think this is a good example of where this expression must mean something more-- something more like "faithfulness to God," or "allegiance to God." The other thing I should say, is that Jesus is talking about a specific type of hearing. Everyone within ear shot, "hears" Jesus' words. Just like everyone hearing, "believes in God." But Jesus is calling for a specific type of hearing-- the type of hearing that trusts Jesus' words as true, and builds your life around them (cf. John 18:37; Pilate doesn't really "hear" Jesus). So how can you receive eternal life? How can this be something you have, right now? First, you have to hear Jesus' words, accepting them, trusting them. Second, you have to give your allegiance to the Father. "Faithfulness/allegiance" is not something we have only toward Jesus. Our commitment ultimately goes to the Father (through Jesus). Verse 25-30: (25) Truly, truly, I say to you, that an hour is coming-- and now is-- when the dead will hear the voice of God's son, and the ones hearing will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, in the same way also to the son he has given, life to have in himself, and authority he has given him, judgment to make, because the son of man, he is. Let's pause here. Who are "the dead" in verse 25? We maybe naturally think Jesus is talking about people who have been buried, and are dead. But I think (following every commentator) "the dead" here are people who aren't Christians. Jesus just said, if you hear his words, and give your allegiance to the Father, you pass over from death to life. Non-Christians, right now, are dead. And we who are part of God's people through Jesus, right now, are alive. We've received the life that Jesus gives (John 17:3). So we need to resist the urge here to think in terms of the last day-- the day of judgment. This life is something that "now is" (probably, AJ is helping us here again by adding this). Right now, if you aren't a Christian, you are dead. You don't have the abundant life that God would love to give to you. You don't know God. You don't know his son. But if you hear the voice of Jesus-- of God's son-- really hear it, and accept it-- you will live. There is so much more out there for you, if you would just listen. Verse 28-29: (28) Don't be amazed at this, because an hour is coming in which all the ones in the tombs will hear his voice (29) and they will come out-- the ones, the good things doing, to a resurrection of life. Now, the ones, the evil things practicing, to a resurrection of judgment. (30) I'm not able to do from myself anything. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment, right(eous) it is, because I don't seek my will, but the will of The One Sending me. All of us who have committed ourselves to Jesus, and to the Father, already have and experience eternal life. This doesn't mean that we will never be buried. There will be a day, probably, when people gather around our casket, and cry over us. But there will be also be a day when all of the dead will hear Jesus' voice. And how will that day work? Who, on that day, receives a resurrection of life? Who, on that day, receives a resurrection of judgment? What is the basis for the final judgment? It's works. And the church has always (rightly) considered this verse to be one of the proofs, that the final judgment is based on works. Now, I say this, knowing that coming to accept this was one of the most painful things I've ever done in life. I didn't realize that the church has always, until the last 50 years, taught this-- that I have like 8 systematic theologies at home that teach this. But the final judgment is based on works. Now, Jesus is not just talking about any "works" here. These works are the works that flow out of your commitment to Jesus, and the Father. They are works produced "from faith(fulness)," through the Holy Spirit. Good trees bear good fruit. Bad trees bear bad fruit. And on the last day, God looks at the fruit. And who is the one who will judge? It's Jesus. God has given that authority to his son. So is Jesus a terrible sinner? And does Jesus make himself equal to the Father? Is he independent of the Father? Are the Judeans right to reject Jesus? Absolutely not. Jesus is like a faithful apprentice. He is a faithful son. In everything that Jesus says, and does, he is obeying God's will. And the authority Jesus has-- to give life, and to judge-- he has because his Father loves him, and gave to him. Jesus has the keys to life, and to judgment. ----------------------------------------------------------------- So what have we learned so far in chapter 5? We've seen the two main reasons Judeans persecuted Jesus, and wanted him dead: (1) They thought Jesus broke the Sabbath to heal people. (2) They thought Jesus was making himself equal to the Father. And you're supposed to read this chapter, and make a decision about whether or not these criticisms are valid. Was it wrong for Jesus to heal a man who had been an invalid for 38 years? Was that a bad thing? Do you walk away from that story with a bad taste in your mouth, thinking that Jesus is a sinner? Or do you walk away praising God for his love and power? Praising God, for giving life to someone through Jesus? And was Jesus really making himself equal to the Father? Or does this badly misunderstand the nature of their relationship? Much of the gospel of John, up to this point, has been designed to bring you all the way to Jesus-- to making a full commitment to him. To become his full disciples. To take the step of baptism, and allegiance. And if you're a Judean, what keeps you from making this commitment? You may find yourself drawn to Jesus, wanting to listen to his voice, but you just can't get over these stumbling blocks. You worry that Jesus is a sinner. You worry that he claims too much for himself-- claims things that belong only to the Father. So let's wrestle with this question. Was Jesus "making himself equal to the Father"? When we ask this question, we find ourselves talking, really, about the Trinity. This is a subject that's super complicated, that the church wrestled with for a couple hundred years before answering definitively (and deciding what's heretical). And I guess I can't put off wrestling with this myself anymore. So, to answer this question, we have to do it in steps. First, let's talk about the verb-- "making himself." (1) Does Jesus "make himself" equal to God? One of the Judean's most common criticisms of Jesus in the book of John is that Jesus tries to "make himself" things (H/T Jerome Neyrey). John 5:18: "because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but also his own Father, he was calling God, making himself equal to/with God." John 10:33: The Judeans answered him, "Concerning a good deed we are not stoning you, but concerning blasphemy, and because you, a man being, make yourself God." John 19:7: The Judeans answered him, "We, a law, we have, and according to the law, he must die, because the Son of God himself he made. John 19:12: "Everyone, a king himself making, opposes Caesar." The Judeans think that Jesus, although he's just a man, makes himself God, the son of God, and king. But this totally misunderstands Jesus' relationship to God. Everything Jesus has and does, he has and does because his Father gave it to him. The Father sent him, and gave him the keys to life and to judgment. Let's turn to John 3:27: John answered, and he said, A man isn't able to receive even one thing, unless only it is given to him from heaven." What Jesus has, he has because it was given to him. So Jesus doesn't "make himself" anything. That's just a misunderstanding. So we can rule this out pretty quickly, and easily. Now, this brings us to our second question. (2) Do Jesus, and AJ, think that Jesus is equal to God? The answer, I think, is "yes," "yes," and "no." There's are two senses in which Jesus is equal to God. (A) "Yes" #1: John 1:1: In the beginning, the Word was, and the Word was with God, and God, the Word was. John 20:28: Thomas answered, and he said to him, "The Lord of me, and the God of me." So, in terms of being/substance/form, Jesus is equal to God. (B) Yes #2: Jesus is equal to the Father in a second way, at least in a sense. The Father has two keys, in particular, that no one else does: He has the keys to life, and to judgment. And the Father has given these keys to Jesus. And so, at a practical, functional level, Jesus is equal to the Father in this sense. But this equality, is not independence. At every step, Jesus does only what his Father wants. Just like God created the world through his Word, so also God works in the world, and saves the world, through his Word. (C) No: I don't think I've messed up anything too badly so far. But I also need to say, that Jesus doesn't claim to be equal to God: John 10:29: "My Father-- the One Who Has Given To Me-- greater than all, He is." John 14:28 "The Father, greater than me, He is. Jesus doesn't view himself as equal to the Father. And he doesn't make himself equal to the Father. In everything, he submits to his Father, doing his will. Doing nothing apart from him. The church, historically, has talked about all of this using very big, complicated, theologically loaded words. But the bottom line is that Jesus, in his nature/form/being, is God (John 1:1; 20:28), and is equal to God. He is "ontologically equal." At the same time, on a functional, practical level, Jesus is subordinate (at least while on earth; how it works after his resurrection is a little more debated). He submits to the Father. The key Pauline text for this is Philippians 2:4-11 (ESV): 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,[a] 6 who, though he was in the form of God (ontological equality) did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped (functional subordination),[b] 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,[c] being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. ---------------------------------------------------- Craig Keener, The Gospel of John, 1:648: "Jesus is not claiming rank equal with the Father, but rather that he acts in obedience and on delegated authority. In an honor-and-shame culture that highly prized disciplining boys for obedience, the claim that Jesus was 'obedient' to his Father was a cause for praise. From John's standpoint, Jesus is fully deity (1:1, 18; 20:28), but he also submits to the Father, whose rank is greater than his own (10:29; 14:28). Thus Jesus does not claim equality of rank (cf. Phil. 2:6); in view of his prologue, John presumably would have agreed with the later Trinitarian notion of the Father and Son sharing the same 'substance' had the question been put to (and explained to) him, but he usese the term 'equality' for rank, not an ontological question of nature." -------------------------------------------------------------- How does all of this matter, at a practical level? Lots of Christians, I think, have a tendency toward bi-theism-- the idea that there are really two Gods. They view God the Father as harsh, angry, distant. And they view Jesus as loving and merciful. And so they love Jesus, and fear the Father. They view Jesus as a buffer, or shield, from the Father. And they wouldn't say all of this, exactly. But they have a tendency to think and talk in this direction. It's a struggle they have. But God the Father sent Jesus because He loves the world, and wants to save the world. He wants to share his divine life with the world, and restore our broken relationship with him. That was always God's plan. And Jesus faithfully, obediently, humbly, carried out his Father's plan. Jesus is the Father's loyal son. And we should praise our God, who gives life to whoever he wishes through Jesus. I praise God, that He gave life to me, through Jesus. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Without saying I agree with all of this (because I haven't truthfully read it very carefully), here' s an intro to the subject of Jesus' subordination, found not very carefully through a 10 second google search: http://www.biblicalanswers.net/subordination.html Translation: (1) After these things, there was a feast of the Judeans, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. (2) Now, there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate, a pool, the one being called in Aramaic (Hebrew?) Bethesda, five porticos having. (3) In these a great number of the sick ones were lying17 down-- blind, lame, paralyzed. (5) Now,18 a certain man was19 there, 38 years being in his sickness. (6) This man20, Jesus, seeing lying there, and knowing that a long time already he is sick, says to him, "Do you want, healthy, to become? (7) The sick one answered him, "Lord/sir, a man I don't have, in order that whenever the water is stirred up, he would put me into the pool." Now, while I am coming, another before me goes down." (8) Jesus says to him, "Rise up. Take your mat, and walk!," (9) and immediately, he became healthy-- the man-- and he picked up his mat, and he walked. Now21, it was22 a Sabbath on that day. (10) Then,23 the Judeans were24 saying to the one having been healed, "A Sabbath it is, and it isn't allowed for you to pick up your mat." (11) Now, he answered them, "The one making me healthy-- that one to me said, 'Pick up your mat, and walk!'" (12) Then, they asked him, "Who is the man-- the one saying to you, "Pick up and walk." (13) Now, the one being healed didn't know who it is. For Jesus withdrew, a crowd being in the place. (14) After these things, Jesus finds him in the temple, and he said to him, "LOOK! Healthy you have become. No longer sin, in order that worse to you, something may happen." (15) The man departed, and he proclaimed/declared25 to the Judeans, that Jesus, The one making him healthy was, (16) and for this reason, the Judeans were persecuting26 Jesus, because these things27 he was doing on the Sabbath. (17) Now, he answered them, "My Father until now is working, and I am working." (18) Then, for this reason, even more, the Judeans were seeking to kill him, because not only he was breaking the Sabbath, but also his own Father, he was calling [the] God, equal himself making with God. (19) Then,28 Jesus answered, and he was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the son isn't able to do from himself anything, except only what he sees the Father doing." For whatever That One does-- these things-- also the son likewise does. (20) For the Father loves the son, and everything, He shows him that he is doing, and greater than these works, he will show him, in order that you shall be amazed. (21) For just as the Father raises the dead, thus also the Son, whoever he wishes, he makes alive. (22) For the Father doesn't judge anyone, but every judgment he has given to the son, in order that all shall honor the son, just as they honor the Father. The one not honoring the son, doesn't honor the Father-- the One Who Sent him. (24) Truly, truly, I say to you, that the one, my word, hearing and giving allegiance to The One Sending me has eternal life, and into judgment doesn't come, but has passed from death into life. (25) Truly, truly, I say to you, that an hour is coming-- and now is-- when the dead will hear the voice of God's son, and the ones hearing will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, in the same way also to the son he has given, life to have in himself, and authority he has given him, judgment to make, because the son of man, he is. (28) Don't be amazed at this, because an hour is coming in which all the ones in the tombs will hear his voice (29) and they will come out-- the ones, the good things doing, to a resurrection of life. Now, the ones, the evil things practicing, to a resurrection of judgment. (30) I'm not able to do from myself anything. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment, right(eous) it is, because I don't seek my will, but the will of The One Sending me. (31) If I testify about myself, my testimony isn't true. (32) Another, the one testifying about me is, and I know that, true, the testimony which he testifies about me is. (33) You have sent to(ward) John, and he has testified to the truth. (34) Now, I don't, from (a) man, testimony receive, but these things I say, in order that you may/shall be saved. (35) That one was the lamp-- the one burning and shining. Now, you wanted to rejoice for an hour in his light. (36) Now, I have a testimony greater than John. For the works that He gave to me-- the Father--, (in order) that I would complete them-- the works themselves that I am doing testify about me, that the Father, me, he has sent, (37) and The One Sending me-- the Father-- That One has testified about me. Neither his voice ever you have heard, nor his form you have seen, and his word(/Word?) you don't have in you abiding,29 because the one whom he sent-- that one-- to this one you don't "believe"/give allegiance. (39) Investigate the scriptures, because you think in them, eternal life to have, and those ones are the ones testifying about me, and you don't want to come toward me,30 so that life you would/shall have. (41) Glory from people I don't receive, but I know you, that the love of31 God you don't have in yourselves. (43) I have come in the name of my Father, and you don't receive me.32 (44) How are you able to give allegiance, glory from one another receiving, and the glory-- the one from the only God-- you don't seek?33 (45) Don't think that I will accuse you before the Father. The one accusing you is Moses, toward34 whom you have put your hope. For if you "believed/gave allegiance" toward35 Moses, you would believe/give allegiance toward me. For about me,36 that one wrote. (47) Now, if to/in that one's writings you don't believe/give allegiance, how to/in my words will you believe/give allegiance?37 1 story taking a step forward. I'm trying to take it chunks, respecting these. 2 It sounds like "Hebrew", but everyone translates it Aramaic. 3 imperfect verb-- scene scetting, preparing you for something else. 4 story taking a step forward. Trying to work from "de" to "de." 5 imperfect verb again. 6 LDGNT Glossary calls this a "topic of verbless clause": Topic of verbless clause-Heuristic label to identify the topic or subject of a clause where both subject and the predicate share the same grammatical case. 7 step forward. 8 Imperfect verb. 9 outside of John, "ouv" normally signals a resumption of an argument or story after a digression. Here, that usage works better. Story picks up after explaining that it's a Sabbath. But that's the first one I've seen work this way. 10 imperfect. 11 not the word I'd expect. John 4:25; 16:13, 14, 15. 12 This is overspecification here, and focus. Who is Jesus? Jesus is The One Making him healthy. 13 Bible translations treat this as an ingressive, marking the start of their persecution. Which is maybe true-- but the verb here is more an offline explanation for why Judeans struggled with Jesus. The whole verse is like an aside to the reader. OR, is it preparing us for something else? 14 Jesus made a habit of healing people on the Sabbath. 15 Here again, "ouv" seeming to function more as a resumption of the story. 16 overspecification. When you think of the Father, think of him as "The One Who Sent Jesus." 17 imperfect verb-- scene scetting, preparing you for something else. 18 story taking a step forward. 19 imperfect verb again. 20 LDGNT Glossary calls this a "topic of verbless clause": Topic of verbless clause-Heuristic label to identify the topic or subject of a clause where both subject and the predicate share the same grammatical case. 21 step forward. 22 Imperfect verb. 23 outside of John, "ouv" normally signals a resumption of an argument or story after a digression. Here, that usage works better. Story picks up after explaining that it's a Sabbath. But that's the first one I've seen work this way. 24 imperfect. 25 not the word I'd expect. John 4:25; 16:13, 14, 15. 26 Bible translations treat this as an ingressive, marking the start of their persecution. Which is maybe true-- but the verb here is more an offline explanation for why Judeans struggled with Jesus. The whole verse is like an aside to the reader. OR, is it preparing us for something else? 27 Jesus made a habit of healing people on the Sabbath. 28 Here again, "ouv" seeming to function more as a resumption of the story. 29 This is harsh. True, but not something a Judean would easily admit to being true. 30 discipleship language-- "coming to Jesus." 31 the classic genitive example-- "love for God"? "God's love?" 32 more discipleship language. 33 interesting. A perfect parallel with Paul, in the chapter evangelicals usually don't actually believe. Seek the glory that comes from the Father. Romans 2:6-8 (ESV): 6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking[a] and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 34 "eis." This is the main preposition that usually goes with "believing toward Jesus." You have put your hope/allegiance toward Moses, or toward Jesus. But Moses pointed toward Jesus. 35 it's a simple dative here. Assuming the sense of "toward" from the preceding line. 36 Runge has "that one" has focused here. Which is maybe right. 37 and so it ends on a haunting note-- a question. --------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ 12