Discerning Discernment Ministries | Ep 003

2 Responses to Gospel Preaching

The Healthy Response

“Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice,” (Philippians 1:15–18, ESV).

The Wrong Response

“And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women. But the Jews were jealous, and taking some wicked men of the rabble, they formed a mob, set the city in an uproar, and attacked the house of Jason, seeking to bring them out to the crowd.” (Acts 17:2–5, ESV)

Satan Contradicts Gospel Preaching

“So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus. When they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. And they had John to assist them. When they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they came upon a certain magician, a Jewish false prophet named Bar-Jesus. He was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence, who summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. But Elymas the magician (for that is the meaning of his name) opposed them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith.” (Acts 13:4–8, ESV)

“Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men. But when the Jews from Thessalonica learned that the word of God was proclaimed by Paul at Berea also, they came there too, agitating and stirring up the crowds.” (Acts 17:11–13, ESV)

Satan Works Through Jealousy

“And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women. But the Jews were jealous, and taking some wicked men of the rabble, they formed a mob, set the city in an uproar, and attacked the house of Jason, seeking to bring them out to the crowd.” (Acts 17:4–5, ESV)

Jealousy is How Satan Contradicts Gospel Preaching

“And after the meeting of the synagogue broke up, many Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who, as they spoke with them, urged them to continue in the grace of God. The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him.” (Acts 13:43–45, ESV)

Satan Goes Beyond Opposing the Message & Attacks Preachers Personally

“And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord was spreading throughout the whole region. But the Jews incited the devout women of high standing and the leading men of the city, stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and drove them out of their district. But they shook off the dust from their feet against them and went to Iconium. And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 13:48–52, ESV)

“Now at Iconium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks believed. But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers. So they remained for a long time, speaking boldly for the Lord, who bore witness to the word of his grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands. But the people of the city were divided; some sided with the Jews and some with the apostles. When an attempt was made by both Gentiles and Jews, with their rulers, to mistreat them and to stone them, they learned of it and fled to Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and to the surrounding country, and there they continued to preach the gospel.” (Acts 14:1–7, ESV)

“But Jews came from Antioch and Iconium, and having persuaded the crowds, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing that he was dead.” (Acts 14:19, ESV)

“When Silas and Timothy arrived from Macedonia, Paul was occupied with the word, testifying to the Jews that the Christ was Jesus. And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” And he left there and went to the house of a man named Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. His house was next door to the synagogue. Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized. And the Lord said to Paul one night in a vision, “Do not be afraid, but go on speaking and do not be silent, for I am with you, and no one will attack you to harm you, for I have many in this city who are my people.” And he stayed a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them. But when Gallio was proconsul of Achaia, the Jews made a united attack on Paul and brought him before the tribunal,” (Acts 18:5–12, ESV)

“Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them. When the seven days were almost completed, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him, crying out, “Men of Israel, help! This is the man who is teaching everyone everywhere against the people and the law and this place. Moreover, he even brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place.” For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, and they supposed that Paul had brought him into the temple. Then all the city was stirred up, and the people ran together. They seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple, and at once the gates were shut. And as they were seeking to kill him, word came to the tribune of the cohort that all Jerusalem was in confusion.” (Acts 21:26–31, ESV)

Thoughts on the Rise & Fall of Mars Hill

Mark Driscoll is not perfect; he’s had some wins and some losses, just like all the people who are judging him, perhaps out of jealousy, because they don’t have a platform.

People that like to critic leaders should count their blessings that the spotlight isn’t on them. Most people who deal out judgment wouldn’t be able to stand it if it was dealt back to them in like measure.

Some of the criticism against Mark is over complementarian practice, which is not this straw-man of stiff-patriarchy. At least in the episode that I listened to, they are never honest about them being Egalitarians (I don’t mean to villainize them).

I understand why the elders of Mars Hill would call for Mark to step down from Mars Hill. I don’t get how they can call him to resign from the Trinity Church, a place where they have absolutely NO authority. (Why Mark has no elders at his church, I’m still seeking to see where the Bible supports that, but at the very least, there is trans-local leadership that Mark is under, and yes, it is biblical.)

Application

Most “discernment ministries” are done out of jealousy, even though these people claim it is out of love for the truth.

Anytime someone cannot celebrate the preaching of the gospel, that is fueled by feelings of jealousy, even though the stated reason is correcting bad doctrine.

Some Advice

Do not put leaders on a pedestal. Be a student of the Bible

Eat the meat, spit out the bones

You don’t have the gift of discernment because you’re a critic. You have the ability to discern when you have the Spirit of God teaching you the Word of God.

Seek to understand before you last out and criticize people who have perhaps done more to advance the kingdom than you have. Sometimes the most critical people are the most unproductive people. We should be humbled by the reminder that Jesus gave us: “For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done” (Matthew 16:27). Don’t be judging others when you have no skin in the game!

Questions

In accordance with your understanding, where is the Biblical Hell located?

The Bible isn’t clear on where it is. Based on one obscure passage out of Amos, one writer has come to think that the geographical location of hell is at the center of the earth (that is, deep past the mantle of the earth, down to its core. That’s the short answer. But if you wish to get into the details, the Bible describes hell as the absence of God’s goodness.

In the Old Testament, there was a location called Gehenna, or the Valley of Hinnom, a place where the Israelites would burn their children alive as sacrifices to a pagan god named Molech. This valley was basically synonymous with death because it contained stacks of skeletons (think of those gritty images from WWII). It also became the place where people would dump their trash. This became the place where “the fire never goes out” (Mark 9:48, NLT).

More important than a location is the everyday reality of hell that we ourselves cause. For example, James talks about our speech. “The tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell” (James 3:6). In other words, we unleash hell on others when we scorch them with our words. Do you bless people or curse them? Hell is the result of actions that are not submitted to God.

The alternative is living a life that is influenced by and obedient to God. When the Holy Spirit is in control of our lives, every part of us becomes a vehicle by which the righteousness of God can move freely, blessing those around us, bringing down to earth the culture of heaven.

Is the idea that: "each of the 3 persons is only 1/3 of the amount of persons in the trinity while still being fully God in nature/essence" compatible or incompatible with scripture?

If I’m understanding your question properly, the question is: Is each member of the trinity fully God, yet distinct? To that question, I say, yes. It is difficult to explain the doctrine of the trinity without getting it wrong, but here I go.

The first major point is comparing how the different religions view God. Some religions say that God is in everything and so everything is God. That’s wrong. Other religions say there are many gods, but that’s wrong also. Still other religions say that there is only one God. Christianity is distinct from all the other religions because we know that God is three-in-one.

Some people have misunderstood this truth by comparing God to things in his creation, like water. They will point out that water has three forms: liquid, gas, and ice. However, this metaphor doesn’t accurately show us who God is because these forms morph into other forms depending on its surroundings. Scripture teaches that the Son and Spirit are co-eternal with the Father. None of them ever cease being God and they don’t morph into each other because they work together all the time. For example,

“Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead” (Romans 1:1–4, ESV).

The Father promises salvation, the Son accomplishes salvation, and the Spirit applies salvation. They work as a team, equally God yet equally unique. I hope that answers your question.