Our God is Marching On

INTRODUCTION

It was of zero confirmation to me as I began to study for this week’s sermon that commentary after commentary preceded their comments on Revelation 11 with something along the lines of “this is the most challenging chapter in the book of Revelation to understand as an interpreter.”

At first I thought they were probably just joking but the more I dug the more challenging it became to solidly identify exactly what John is describing in these chapters.

So before we begin I want to offer up a caution to us as Bible readers to be careful that we don’t make the Bible say more than what it actually says.

One of the reasons that so many commentators struggle so greatly with Revelation 11 is because they’re trying to attach meaning to things that John never really defines.

There’s a great deal of ambiguity in this chapter of what John means by some of what he says. I believe John does that “by design” as did many of the OT prophets as well.

Answering The Right Questions

As we make out way through this passage we’re going to be exposed to certain interpretive questions that must be answered. Unfortunately, as we’ll find, there are not “easy answers.”

But in addition to answering these interpretive questions we must also be diligent to understand the “main point.” It’s easy to miss the forest for the trees.

So as we go through this chapter I’m going to expose you to the various different options that might be going on. However, I’m also going to try and resist the urge to go beyond what the text allows.

Because if we overcorrect here we won’t have enough roadway left to finish the book and maintain a cohesive understanding of its main thrust.

A TEMPLE TO MEASURE:

So the passage opens up with John being given a measuring reed to go and measure the temple.

Revelation 11:1–2 (CSB)

1 Then I was given a measuring reed (Kalamos) like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count those who worship there. 2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

Measuring reeds were used to measure the distance between two points or also to separate one type of thing from another.

Right away we have an interpretive question that needs to be answered and that is “what exactly is John being asked to measure?”

Is this a literal physical temple (like the one built in Jerusalem?)

is this a heavenly temple (like comes out of heaven later in the book?) ,

is this a spiritual temple that represents something else (like the people of God?)

Almost always the commentaries I read spill fountains of ink of trying to identify this temple and what it represents.

A good number of people say that this temple represents “the Church.” Throughout the NT the body of Christ is referred to as “God’s temple.” (even in 1 Corinthians Paul says our bodies are temple of the Holy Spirit).

Other suggest this is describing a physical temple in Jerusalem. The fact that there is no temple now means that one will be rebuilt and in Jersualem at the old location.

What you believe about the meaning of this temple in some ways is determined by your overall interpretive grid.

(For example, whether or not you think the church is still on the earth during the Great Tribulation and - if so - for how much of that Tribulation are they present?)

Pre-trib would say the church is gone so this is not a reference to a Christian remnant (maybe a remnant of believing Jews from the 144K)

Mid/Post/Pre Wrath could go either way. It might be a reference to the believing church, might be a reference to a literal physical temple, could go either way.

People who take an idealist or spiritualized approach to the book say pretty confidentially that this is clearly a metaphorical reference to God’s faithful remnant on the earth.

Some would read this passage and immediately think of OT parallels. Does that help shed any light as to whether this is a literal measurement or metaphorical? Not really.

In Ezekiel 40 the prophet is told to measure the temple and the various courts and it certainly looks to be a physical measuring of a literal temple.

However in Amos 7:7-8 or Zech 2:1-5 the measuring is applied to people and not buildings. It was to separate the true from the false. Boundaries that make distinctions between God’s people and the people of this world.

So is John measuring something literally or figuratively? A physical building or the true believers from the false?

The Main Point

I am sympathetic to the view that there are indications in the text of this particular temple being figurative. However - I also believe that there will be a literal temple desecrated by the antiChrist during the final days preceding the return of Christ.

It could be John is being intentionally ambiguous so that it encompasses both a spiritual temple in a macro sense and a literal temple finally at the very end of days.

Whether or not it’s literal or physical is not the point.

The point is that God knows the people who belong to Him and they will be protected. God’s people will always be protected!

Some of you need to be reminded of that today. It’s so easy when the world is falling apart to think God is checked out or doesn’t care or that you’re all alone but you’re not. He has measured out his people! He knows them by name!

It’s also a reminder that God makes a clear distinction between those who are his and those who are not. There is no certainty that you belong to the Lord when you live one foot in the world and one foot in the church.

Choose you this day who you’re going to serve. There will be a measuring and you will be found one or the other.

A TIME TO ENDURE:

The second interpretive question that needs to be asked from this passage is what are these 42 months? What do they represent.

What’s 42 divided by 12? It’s 3 1/2 years. We’ve seen this time measurement before from the book of Daniel. It actually shows up in a variety of ways.

Sometimes it’s listed as time, (1 year) times (2 years) and half a time. (Dan 7:25)

Sometimes it’s listed as 2,300 evenings and mornings (Dan 8:14)

Sometimes it’s listed as 1,290 days (Dan 12:11)

Sometimes it’s just referred to as a half week (Dan 9:27)

We’ve already seen earlier in our study of the book of Revelation that John is drawing from the prophecy in Daniel 9:27 to describe the events surrounding the end times antichrist. So it’s likely this 42 months is in association with that basic discussion.

Antiochus Epiphanes - TYPE

The question for the interpreter is in what way is John using the prophecies of Daniel to describe these end times events?

The immediate fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy was with a type of antichrist known as Antiochus Epiphanes. He fulfilled all of the prophecies stated by Daniel between the years 167-164BC. (Josephus - Wars of the Jews, 5.394)

He was an arrogant pagan king who greatly oppressed God’s people. (Dan 7:23-24)

He stopped the sacrifices in the temple for 3.5 years (Dan 8:11-14).

He desecrated the temple with the slaughter of a pig (unclean animal). (Dan 11:31) (1 Maccabees 1:54)

God’s faithful remnant resisted and they were persecuted and killed (Dan 11:32-35)

God’s people will be given over to that persecution for time, times and half a time (or 3 and 1/2 years) After that, judgment will fall on him (Dan 7:25-26)

Literal or Figurative?

If John is using this reference of 42 months from Daniel to say there’s an exact parallel between the actions of Antiochus and the actions of the End Times Antichrist then it should be understood as a literal 3 1/2 year period.

If, however, John is using the terms 42 months to encapsulate the idea that God’s people will experience persecution for a defined period of time then there may be more elasticity to the time frame.

(in that sense 42 months like like a catchphrase)

As usual, your interpretive grid determines how you understand this time reference.

Some (historicist) say that the days = years and it’s 1,260 years (though there’s no agreement as to when it starts and when it ends)

Some (preterist) say it refers to the period of time before the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70AD.

Some (idealists) say that it’s just John’s way of saying “a definite period of time.” It has an appointed beginning and an appointed end.

There are some who say the beginning started with the ascension of Jesus and describes the persecution of God’s people from then until Jesus comes again.

Some say it’s a definite period of time at the end of days but could be longer or shorter than just 3.5 years.

Those who come from the futurist camp are all across the board.

This could be the 3.5 years before the abomination of desolation.

Some say it’s the 3.5 years after the abomination of desolation.

Some take these two verses in a more idealist sense to refer to an indefinite period of time in which God’s people are persecuted.

Some say it’s a reference to a faithful Jewish remnant in Jerusalem and others say it’s a reference to a faithful Christian remnant around the world.

You say - “Wes what do you believe?” Well, again, I’m not 100% sure. Daniel’s prophecy was fulfilled on a timeline in keeping with 3 1/2 literal years. It was not figurative then. There are good reasons to think that in the future this prophecy will be fulfilled via a literal 3 1/2 years.

And yet there are biblical reasons to think that John might be using this time designation in a figurative sense. Yes he’s describing persecution and hardship similar to that of Daniels day but he doesn’t mean to limit the duration of that persecution and hardship to merely 3 1/2 years!

Jesus in Luke 21

A good example of this is Jesus’ teaching about the end of days in Luke 21.

He describes a coming desolation of the temple in Jersualem and says it will be “trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles is completed.”

It’s sounds eerily similar to the picture John is painting in Revelation 11.

Luke 21:20–24 (CSB)

20 “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that its desolation has come near. 21 Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains. Those inside the city must leave it, and those who are in the country must not enter it, 22 because these are days of vengeance to fulfill all the things that are written. 23 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days, for there will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will be killed by the sword and be led captive into all the nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

One of the reasons many people think the prophecies in the book of Revelation were fulfilled in the first century is because this very thing happens in the city of Jersualem to the Jews by the hands of the Romans with the destruction of the temple in 70AD.

Jesus’ statement about the “times of the Gentiles” leaves you with the impression that we are still in the times of the Gentiles right now. The Jews have been persecuted and distressed from that point all the way up till now.

We see it in the news all the time with the conflicts in the middle east and the hostility Jewish people face by those who wish for their demise. Wouldn’t take much to argue that the 3 1/2 years is a reference to an extended period of time ranging from 70AD all the way up to the return of Christ.

The Main Point

So which is it? Is is a figurative 42 months or is it a literal 42 months? I really don’t think you can say for sure with confidence which it is. And in some ways, perhaps John is being intentionally ambiguous so that the elasticity of the prophecy can include both.

But that’s not the main point. The main point is the persecution of God’s people is part of God’s plan. Persecution is part of the plan.

Remember the cry of the martyrs in Revelation 6:10?

“How long O Lord...” He responds with a definite answer “when the last martyr comes in...” In other words, “not one second longer than what I have appointed.”

It’s part of God’s plan. God is sovereignly overseeing the trampling of his people and is allowing it only so far as it fits in with his sovereign purposes.

Remember Jesus’ letter to the church in Smyrna? They were a church experiencing incredible persecution. And Jesus writes to encourage them but he doesn’t tell them hold on and the persecution will end in a few years.

He says “for some of you this persecution is going to get even worse. The devil will throw you into prison and some of you will even be killed. But if you’ll be faithful I’ll give you the crown of life...” (Rev 2:10)

The persecution is part of the plan. Those who overcome will not be harmed by the second death but instead they will reign with Christ forever more.

A TRUTH TO PROCLAIM:

The third interpretive question we need to answer is “Who are these two witnesses? Let’s read about them again just to freshen your memory.

Revelation 11:3 (CSB)

3 I will grant my two witnesses authority to prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth.”

Who are these two witnesses? What does it mean that they are “given authority to prophecy?” Are these 1,260 referring to the same 42 months as before? Is this reference literal or figurative? All important questions!

Notice what they’re wearing!? Sackcloth. The clothes that they wear tell us a lot about the message that they deliver. It’s what OT prophets wore when they were preaching a message of judgment and repentance. (mourning, destruction)

Revelation 11:4 (CSB)

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.

It gets more and more interesting doesn’t it!? The reference to olive trees and lampstands comes from the book of Zechariah 4. It’s almost an exact quote. If we had time I’d take you there to read the chapter in it’s entirety.

The olive trees have to do with oil.

The oil would drip from the olives and fall into these two golden conduits (which in Zechariah’s original prophecy referred to God’s anointed servants Joshua and Zeruabbabel)

That oil through those conduits would keep the fires of the seven lampstands burning. We know from Zechariah 4:6 that the oil refers to the Holy Spirit.

So in John’s Vision these two messengers are empowered by God because they are filled with the Holy Spirit. That is the source of their great power and authority.

It gets even better than that. These spirit-filled messengers also have power to do miraculous things.

Revelation 11:5 (CSB)

5 If anyone wants to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and consumes their enemies; if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.

Pretty incredible isn’t it?! Don’t mess with preachers! Amen!

Whoever these two messengers are they are supernaturally protected by God and supernaturally empowered by God to fulfill their mission.

Figurative or Literal?

As with the temple in verse 1 and the 42 days in verse 2 there are disagreements as to who these two messengers are and what this language represents.

Are these literal fire breathing Christians/Jews? Do these two messengers refer to two actual people who act on behalf of a larger group?

Or is John using figurative language to describe preaching “in general” that has great power and effectiveness?

Are the two witnesses a description of a faithful church preaching the Gospel or a faithful remnant of believing Jews holding fast to their hope in Christ?

Again, it’s difficult to say with great certainty.

There are good reasons to take this in a figurative sense. Especially if you understand the temple and 42 month in a more figurative sense.

However there are also reasons to think these are 2 literal people who will prophesy during the final years before the return of Christ and that they themselves may even be the vehicle God uses to bring about some of the plagues and judgments of Revelation 8-9.

Moses and Elijah?

Because of what John sees in verse 6 there have even been attempts at identifying these two witnesses as prophets from the Old Testament.

Revelation 11:6 (CSB)

6 They have authority to close up the sky so that it does not rain during the days of their prophecy. They also have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every plague whenever they want.

If you know your Old Testament you’ll immediately recognize these two actions as actions from Elijah and Moses in the OT.

Elijah was able to shut up the skies so it wouldn’t rain (1 Kings 17-18)

Malachi 4:5 the Lord says “he will send the prophet Elijah before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes...”

Elijah also never died so perhaps he just comes back so he can die again (because Hebrews say everybody has to die at least once) (Hebrews 9:27)

Or maybe it’s even Enoch because Enoch also never died and so it’s gotta be Elijah and Enoch.

Others say, “No it’s Moses! Because Moses turned the water into blood. He was the one who unleashed the plagues.”

Those are all interesting theories. The problem is the text never does say any of those things! So you just cannot say with any degree of certainty that that’s the case.

The Main Point

If they are literally two people with supernatural power to breathe fire out of their mouths then that’s a pretty fantastical thing. However - it’s not any more fantastical than any of the other things we’ve seen with the trumpet judgements thus far.

That’s really not the point. If John wanted to be specific about the identify or timing of these two messengers the he would have done so. But he didn’t because that’s not the main point.

The main point is that God’s message will be proclaimed. God’s message will be made known among the peoples of the earth no matter how hard they try to thwart that message!

Now you probably don’t think of yourself as a prophet and I don’t generally refer to myself in that way. However - you are one of God’s witnesses is the Spirit of God lives in you.

We are an Acts 1:8 church and Acts 1:8 says you will receive POWER when the Holy Spirit comes upon you and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth.”

This might be John’s way of describing that very dynamic. The temple is the church, the tramping is the persecution of God’s people and the two witnesses represent the body of Christ.

God has commissioned you to speak so speak! God’s power is just as available today as it was back then. The question isn’t whether God has the power. The question is whether we have faith.

The Spirit of God lives in you and enables you to do even greater things than what the Lord Jesus Christ did while he walked this earth.

The point is that God’s Word will do the work. God’s message will prevail and his messengers will have all the power and protection they need to do as God has commissioned them to do.

A TRIUMPH TO REVERSE:

The following three verses describe what happens to these witnesses after they fulfill God’s calling on their life to prophecy.

Revelation 11:7–10 (CSB)

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war on them, conquer them, and kill them. 8 Their dead bodies will lie in the main street of the great city, which figuratively is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9 And some of the peoples, tribes, languages, and nations will view their bodies for three and a half days and not permit their bodies to be put into a tomb. 10 Those who live on the earth will gloat over them and celebrate and send gifts to one another because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

Just like we saw earlier - there are disagreements with how to define some of these terms.

Who is the beast? Some say Satan. Some say the Antichrist. Some say the antichrist indwelt with Satan after the AOD. Some say it’s a broad reference to all three (unholy trinity). A concept of great evil fighting against God and his people.

What is the “great city?” Some say the “main street of the great city” is a reference to Jerusalem. Other say the “Great City” is figurative to represent the “domain of the beast.” So what you have is a war between good and evil, God’s kingdom and the kingdom of the unholy trinity (all of this is developed further in 13-14)

Sodom is used figuratively to refer to the gross immorality of the kingdom of the beast (or of Jerusalem if the great city is defined thusly).

And Egypt is used figuratively to refer to the fact that the kingdom of the beast seeks to enslave the people of God through slavery to sin (or Jerusalem if taken in that way).

There are some textual clues in this passage which make me sympathetic with the idealist interpretation . It could be that John is painting in very broad strokes in chapter 11 and then drills down more definitively in chapters 13-14.

For example

Their dead body is used in the singular the first two times it’s mentioned. That indicates that these two witnesses may serve as a figurative representation of the body of Christ preaching against the Kingdom of this world.

The fact that there are peoples from every tribe, tongue, people nation suggests that the “great city” might not be Jerusalem but a broader reference to the domain of the beast (or unholy trinity). It’s a seeming defeat of God’s people at the hands of the powers of darkness.

The fact that they “make war” suggests it’s probably not just two people but that the two people are representative of a larger force (maybe even the church)

The fact that they minister for 3 1/2 years and then lie dead for 3 1/2 days bears similarities to the ministry of Jesus for three years and resurrection just days after his death.

The fact that people all over the earth are gloating and celebrating make this war seem global in scope instead of localized in the temple at Jerusalem. (even though modern TV makes that possible is that what John had in mind with this initial writing?)

Literal of Figurative?

So which is it? Is it literal or figurative? Are these broad paint strokes of the battle between God’s people (the Church) and their opposition (the forces of Satan and his antihrist?)

Or, is it a literal depiction of two prophets during the final few years before Jesus returns who prophesy on behalf of a Christian (or Jewish) remnant that fights against the political advances of the Antichrist until finally they are defeated with the fatal blow on these supernaturally empowered/protected messengers?

Or, as before, is John being intentionally ambiguous so that the elasticity of his prophetic vision could include both. Macroscopically throughout this entire church age (ascension to second coming) and telescopically during the final seven years before Jesus comes again.

The Main Point

The truth is I’m not sure. I don’t think anybody can say with absolute certainty. But that’s not the main point John is driving home.

The main point is that God’s purpose will prevail. God’s purpose is to be glorified among the people and in the end God is going to get his glory.

Look at how the passage ends.

Revelation 11:11–13 (CSB)

11 But after three and a half days, the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet. Great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” They went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies watched them. 13 At that moment a violent earthquake took place, a tenth of the city fell, and seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake. The survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Again - we don’t have time to get into all of the various different views but I want you to notice the main point John is driving home:

God’s purpose prevailed. No matter how bleak the circumstance, God’s purposes will prevail.

Even the people who mocked over the death and defeat of God’s witnesses - even they in the end give glory to the Lord.

I don’t believe that means they converted to faith in Christ and are going to be in heaven when we get there. I think it’s more of a Philippians 2:10-11 kind of glory.

Even though they didn’t acknowledge it willingly in life - when it’s all said and done “every knee will bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

Conclusion

There’s a temptation when your world is falling apart to feel as though the world has won. Satan - he had his way. He outsmarted you, out planned you, and defeated what you thought was undefeatable.”

It’s very tempting, in that moment, to throw up your hands and assume I guess God either can’t do, won’t do or doesn’t care so maybe it was all a waste. Maybe it was all for nothing.

But before you throw in the towel don’t you forget this one thing: it’s not over until God says its over!

God knows who his people are and has promised to protect them.

Persecution, hardship and suffering are part of his plan.

His message will be proclaimed regardless who tries to silence it.

And his purpose will prevail no matter HOW LOST things may look on the surface.

The Cross and the Resurrection

Lest we forget Jesus himself was crucified, buried and seemingly defeated. His disciples were fearing for their lives, feeling pressure and doubt. But on the third day God RAISED Jesus Christ from the dead and his redemptive purpose prevailed against what seemed like insurmountable odds.

The Lord can take insurmountable odds and surmount them. Even in the face of apparent defeat, God’s truth is marching on!

So head up. Eyes forward and fill your heart full of faith. It’s not over until God says it’s over and when God says it’s over we’ll be the ones who win!

Have you put your trust and faith in Jesus as Lord? It may seem like today it’s a foolish thing to do. But one day - sooner or later - everybody will kneel and confess Jesus as Lord.