Prostitute Riding the Scarlet Beast (Part 2)

Brief Background

For those who are just joining us, we are working our way through the book of Revelation. John the son of Zebedee was in exile on the isle of Patmos. Yeshua was revealed to him there, and John was commanded to write to seven communities in Asia Minor (modern day Turkey).

Last week we began discussing the Great Prostitute riding the Scarlet Beast in Rev. 17. I believe that we need to summarise some of the symbols we defined last week before we go into today’s teaching.

Firstly, we see that there are three basic characters, The Great Prostitute, the Scarlet Beast and the Kings and People of the Earth. These three characters are defined by what the angel told John.

The Great Prostitute is a city: “The great city exercising kingship over the kings of the earth.” Rev. 17:18

The Scarlet Beast is the final world empire. It is directly related to the Beast of the Sea in Rev. 13:1-8 as well as the fourth Beast in Dan. 7:7-8.

Kings and People of the Earth are represented by waters that surround the Great Prostitute. Rev. 17:15 They are the unbelieving gentile world and are not a part of the 10 kings mentioned later.

We also see the angel saying that:

The seven heads represent kingdoms. Rev. 17:9-10 says they are seven mountains. Mountains in prophetic literature represent kingdoms ruled by a king.

The ten horns refer to specific rulers. Rev. 17:12-14 says that these 10 kings are subordinate to the Beast and they give their power and authority to the Beast.

We ended our discussion last week by looking at how “Mountains” are used in prophetic literature to represent kingdoms. We will pick up from there by first reading Rev. 17:7-14 .

Revelation 17:7–14 TLV

But the angel said to me, “Why are you astonished? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that you saw was, and is not, and yet is about to rise up from the abyss and head for destruction. Those who dwell on the earth—whose names have not been written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world—will be astonished when they see the beast, because he was and is not and is to come. “This calls for a mind having wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated. They are also seven kings— five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. The beast that was and is not—he himself is the eighth, and is one of the seven, and is heading for destruction. The ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. These kings are of one mind, and they give their power and authority to the beast. They will make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them—because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with Him are called and chosen and faithful.”

Seven Heads as Mountains and Kings

Every time that I go through this passage, I am caught by the seven mountains. We spoke last week and I presented multiple passages that show how Mountains refer to kingdoms throughout the Biblical prophets. Why is it then, that we continue to look for a city that is physically situated between 7 hills? Both Rome and Mecca were listed a candidates because both are surrounded by 7 hills.

In studying this further, there are certainly similarities between Rome and the Great Prostitute. Craig Keener writes:

The NIV Application Commentary, Craig S. Keener, Rev. 17:6-11, p. 407-9

Rome made others drunk with her immorality, she also become drunk herself with the blood of the saints. … By John’s day many saints had been martyred under Nero but probably not many under Domitian; yet in the centuries that follow, many more will die martyrs’ deaths.

Rome regularly appears as a city on seven hills or mountains .... Revelation’s symbolism is so transparent that non-Christian Romans would have immediately understood its import and regarded the document as subversive… but in addition to seeing Rome, many commentators also view the great prostitute as the evil world system that in principle continues beyond Rome’s fall.

So, we can see that Keener holds to the view that the Great Prostitute is Rome, or at least was Rome, but makes an allowance for something greater.

Another commentator, Alan Johnson, explains it this way:

The Expositors Bible Commentary, Alan F. Johnson, Rev. 17:7-18, p. 740-3

Much difficulty in interpreting this section has resulted from incorrectly applying John’s words either to the succession of Roman emperors (the seven heads), to the Nero redivivus myth (“once was, now is not, and will come up from the Abyss”), or to a succession of world empires. None of these views are satisfactory...

If we can see that the seven heads do not represent a quantitative measure [actually 7] but show qualitatively the fullness of evil power residing in the beast [7 is only a symbol], then the falling of five heads conveys the message of a significant victory over the beast.

Now, I am not satisfied with either of these views...

I used to hold to the view that the Great Prostitute was the capital city over a revived Roman empire, which is what Keener expresses. There was certainly an understanding in the 1st century that Rome was built on 7 hills, but this would hardly be a “mystery” that requires a “mind having wisdom.” Then there is the problem that the Greek word for “hills” is not used, but rather the word for “mountains.” And even more than that, the very next verse tells us that these “mountains” are “also seven kings”. So, if the angel is telling us that they are actually kings, then we are left asking the question, “How do mountains relate to kings, and furthermore, how do mountains relate to kings in Scripture?”

About 10 years ago, when listening to an underground Pastor from Iran speak at Baruch Hashem in San Antonio, I was also confronted by how my view was not Middle East centric, but still very Western World centric.

Joel Richardson, in discussing this passage, states:

Mideast Beast, Joel Richardson, p. 149

These “mountains,” though, are not just land masses. As commentator Robert Thomas has stated, “The seven heads and mountains … are seven successive empires, with seven kings of v. 10 as heads and personifications of these empires.

The symbol of a mountain is commonly used throughout the Scriptures to refer to a kingdom (e.g. Ps. 30:7, 68:15-16; Isa. 2:2; 41:15; Jer. 51:25; Dan. 2:35; Hab. 3:6, 10; Zech. 4:7). ...

Once it is understood that the mountains are kingdoms, the remainder of the verse is easy to understand… Simply put: kings and kingdoms go together, but mountains and kings have no natural correspondence. A literal mountain cannot also be a king, but a king can represent his kingdom.

However, to accept the view put forward by Richardson and Thomas, the view that I currently hold, I have to acknowledge the difficulties that Johnson brings up. Johnson acknowledges this view, and admits that it does solve some of the “emperor successions problems and fits nicely.” But he feels that this view arbitrarily ignores the “devastating persecution of the people of God under the Seleucids of Syria.”

To that I would respond by pointing out that General Seleucid was once of Alexander the Great’s generals, and is therefore a part of the Greek empire.

But then Johnson raises some important points by saying the following:

The Expositors Bible Commentary, Alan F. Johnson, Rev. 17:7-18, p. 743

A convincing interpretation of the seven kings must do justice to three considerations: (1) Since the heads belong to the beast, the interpretation must relate their significance to the beast, not to Babylon. (2) Since the primary imagery of kingship in Revelation is a feature of the power conflict between the Lamb and the beast ...., the kind of sovereignty expressed in 17:10 must be the true antithesis to the kind of sovereignty exercised by [Messiah] and his followers. (3) Since the kings are closely related to the seven mountains and to the prostitute, the nature of the relationship must be clarified by the interpretation.

Revived Roman or Islamic Empire?

There is a reality here about interpretation. Each of these commentators are being honest with the text, each is doing their best to provide insight and clarity around a difficult vision. We should remember, that although we may have different opinions on this passage, it is not a salvation issue. It does not have to do with the person or the work of Yeshua the Messiah, and how we come to Him. Therefore we need to be gracious with each other and hold our interpretation around this vision of John’s loosely.

Last week I mentioned how I now hold to a Revived Islamic Empire view, and I will attempt to present some of the reasons that I now hold that view.

I mentioned that in Rev. 13:2 we see that this final empire will be a composite of all the previous empires. It is “like a leopard, his feet like a bear’s, and his mouth like a lion’s”; all of these descriptions are similar to the different empires listed in Dan. 7 where the typical understanding is that they represent the Babylonian, Medo-Persian and Greek empires.

The passage in Dan. 7:7-8 follows a similar theme as the dream that was given to King Nebuchadnezzar in Dan. 2, many years before. Let’s us turn and read the interpretation that was given to Daniel 2:38-45

Daniel 2:38–45 TLV

Wherever mankind, beasts of the field, and fowls of the heaven dwell, He has given them into your hand, and made you ruler over them all. You are the head of gold. “Now after you another kingdom will arise, one inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over all the earth. Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron shatters and breaks everything—and just as iron smashes everything, so will it shatter and crush all the others. Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly potter’s clay and partly iron, so this will be a divided kingdom. It will have some of the strength of the iron, for you saw the iron mixed with clay. As the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. Just as you saw iron mixed with clay, people will mix with one another, but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. “Now in the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will this kingdom be left to another people. It will crush and bring to an end all of these kingdoms. But it will endure forever. For just as you saw a stone cut out of a mountain, yet not by hands, crush the iron, bronze, clay, silver and gold, the great God has made known to the king what will happen in the future. Now the dream is certain, and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

I realise that many commentaries will point to the gold head as being the Babylonian Kingdom, the silver arms as being the Medo-Persian Kingdom, the bronze legs as being the Greek Empire, and the iron legs as being the Roman Empire. I would agree with all of these, except the last.

Why is this? Well Rome does not do what Daniel says it must do. In Vs. 40 we see that the fourth kingdom will be as strong as iron, and just as iron smashes everything, so the fourth kingdom will shatter and crush all the others. So here is the question. If Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece are the three others, then did Rome crush and shatter them?

The easiest way to answer this is to look at a couple of maps.

Babylonian Empire

First of all, to whom was this dream given? So when Daniel says that the third kingdom would, “rule over all the earth,” where did that mean? Did the Greek Kingdom rule over China? America or even Great Britain? No, in this context, “all the earth” referred only to all of the Babylonian kingdom, and all of the “known” world from Nebuchadnezzar’s perspective.

Medo-Persian Kingdom

When the Kingdom of the Medes and the Persians conquered the Babylonian Kingdom, they swallowed the entire kingdom. All people who had been a part of the previous kingdom, were now under new management. This is important to note for a variety of reasons. Firstly, we start to see a pattern of the how each kingdom completely takes over the previous one. Also when Cyrus the Great sent out the edict allowing all of the Jewish people to return to Israel, that edict affected all Jewish people throughout the entire Medo-Persian kingdom. This meant that all the tribes of Israel and Judah were able to return at that time.

Greek Kingdom

When Alexander the Great came across from Greece and took on the Medes and the Persian, it was like a shot from an arrow. Within only a matter of years, he completely conquered the entire Medo-Persian empire. He got to the end and wanted to go further, but his army was unwilling. So he returned to Babylon and died at the age of 32. Some say that it was the wine that killed him, and others say that it what was in the wine that killed him. Either way his empire was then portioned out between his generals.

Roman Empire

Now we get to the Roman Empire question. Did Rome conquer the entire Greek Empire? Well, they conquered Greece, and the Ptolemaic Kingdom in Egypt, but they never conquered the whole Seleucid, Parthian or Sassanid Kingdoms. As we have mentioned before, Rome was terrified of the Parthians and were never able to hold the land across the Euphrates River.

So, the simple answer, is that Rome never conquered the entire kingdom of Babylon, Medo-Persia or the whole Greek Empire nor did they get anywhere close. So, what about the Islamic Caliphate?

Eight Kingdom

When we look at the eighth kingdom, Rev. 17:11 “The beast that was and is not—he himself is the eighth, and is one of the seven, and is heading for destruction.” So the angel is telling John that the Scarlet Beast is a revived empire that is one of the seven. So we are looking for a final empire that includes the majority of the land mass of the previous empires, and is a restored empire.

The Dream of Nebuchadnezzar tells us that the feet were a mixture of iron and clay. Dan. 2:41-43. Therefore this final empire will be similar to the previous empire but will be a brittle mixture that does not adhere to each other.

This is not a kingdom of peace and security, but a kingdom held together by force and by a strong leader.

In Rev. 17:12 we see that the 10 leaders (or horns) supported the Beast, but only for a short period of time. Just long enough to make war against the Lamb of God, Yeshua, the King of kings and Lord of lords. But as we see next week in Rev. 17:15-18, the beast is willing to turn on the Great city in a heart beat.

Application for Today

I need to end there for today, and we will pick up from here next week. We need to remember several things:

Biblical prophecy is Jerusalem centric

Allow Scripture to interpret Scripture

Use the simple to interpret the difficult