The Statue in Nebuchadnezzar's Dream (a different view)

1. Introduction

There are many interpretations to the book of Daniel. Therefore, there is a wide range of opportunities to obtain information about the structure, historical background and content of the book. Therefore, this won’t be done in the present work, which in turn allows us to reach the core of the subject without much ado:

Nearly all the exegetes interpret the two iron legs of the statue, that Nebuchadnezzar dreamed of, as West- and East-Rome. But that doesn’t conform to the text.

Nowhere in the book of Daniel Rome was named of even mentioned. This kind of exegesis – as astonishing as it is - is based on assumption, interpretation and tradition.

The exegesis, made in this elaboration here deviates intentionally from this and outlays the two legs as the Seleucids and the Ptolemies, and the 10 toes as the Decapolis or the Ten Cities.

This will be explained in this elaboration in detail. It does not guide itself in the generally accepted view regarding the succession of the empires and not in tradition or interpretation but it follows the text of the bible and – if necessary – the most modern knowledge in science and archaeology.

The exegesis was kept as short and simple as possible, so that every reader can check it within the text of the bible especially in the book of Daniel.

The influence of this kind of exegesis of the statue in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream should not be underestimated regarding its influence on other important prophetic texts in the bible.

Why Daniel in his whole book didn’t talk about Rome and whom he talked of instead is the main item in this elaboration and the reason why it was written. Off course, the issue is complex and many things could or should be added. But it was one important aim to confine oneself to the important points.

Wurmberg, Germany, May 2017 Achim Klein

2. Theses

1. In the book of Daniel, the Roman empire is mentioned not at all.

2. Both iron legs of the Statue in Dan 2 symbolize not the Roman empire (West- and East-Rome), but the historic Seleucids und Ptolemies.

3. The ten toes of the Statue symbolize the rising of the historic Decapolis (Ten Cities) at the end of time.

4. Both feet of the statue will be fulfilled by the rising of the new empires of the Seleucids and the Ptolemies at the end of time.

5. The last Seleucids king mentioned in Daniel is Antiochus IV. Epiphanes. He is the most famous idol of the Antichrist in the bible. The Antichrist does not come from Rome, but is a Seleucid. He is the end timely reincarnation of the historic Antiochus IV. Epiphanes

These theses will be explained in the following.

3. Analyses and exegesis

3.1 Nebuchadnezzars‘ statue

At the beginning of our voyage through the book of Daniel the text itself shall be heard. Later we will see, how important this is, because many of the exegetes and exegeses leave the text and base its argumentation on ex-biblical sources. This leads to wrong results and conclusions. The here made exegesis instead, will lead to the text itself. So, the text shall be printed and read carefully. The exegesis will follow afterwards. Dan. 2,1 ff.:

“1 In the second year of his reign, Nebuchadnezzar had dreams; his mind was troubled and he could not sleep. 2 So the king summoned the magicians, enchanters, sorcerers and astrologers1 to tell him what he had dreamed. When they came in and stood before the king, 3 he said to them, “I have had a dream that troubles me and I want to know what it means.” 4 Then the astrologers answered the king,3 “May the king live forever! Tell your servants the dream, and we will interpret it.” 5 The king replied to the astrologers, “This is what I have firmly decided: If you do not tell me what my dream was and interpret it, I will have you cut into pieces and your houses turned into piles of rubble. 6 But if you tell me the dream and explain it, you will receive from me gifts and rewards and great honor. So tell me the dream and interpret it for me.” 7 Once more they replied, “Let the king tell his servants the dream, and we will interpret it.” 8 Then the king answered, “I am certain that you are trying to gain time, because you realize that this is what I have firmly decided: 9 If you do not tell me the dream, there is only one penalty for you. You have conspired to tell me misleading and wicked things, hoping the situation will change. So then, tell me the dream, and I will know that you can interpret it for me.” 10 The astrologers answered the king, “There is no one on earth who can do what the king asks! No king, however great and mighty, has ever asked such a thing of any magician or enchanter or astrologer. 11 What the king asks is too difficult. No one can reveal it to the king except the gods, and they do not live among humans.” 12 This made the king so angry and furious that he ordered the execution of all the wise men of Babylon. 13 So the decree was issued to put the wise men to death, and men were sent to look for Daniel and his friends to put them to death. 14 When Arioch, the commander of the king’s guard, had gone out to put to death the wise men of Babylon, Daniel spoke to him with wisdom and tact 15 He asked the king’s officer, “Why did the king issue such a harsh decree?” Arioch then explained the matter to Daniel. 16 At this, Daniel went in to the king and asked for time, so that he might interpret the dream for him. 17 Then Daniel returned to his house and explained the matter to his friends Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah. 18 He urged them to plead for mercy from the God of heaven concerning this mystery, so that he and his friends might not be executed with the rest of the wise men of Babylon. 19 During the night the mystery was revealed to Daniel in a vision. Then Daniel praised the God of heaven 20 and said: “Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever; wisdom and power are his. 21 He changes times and seasons; he deposes kings and raises up others. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning. 22 He reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what lies in darkness, and light dwells with him. 23 I thank and praise you, God of my ancestors: You have given me wisdom and power, you have made known to me what we asked of you, you have made known to us the dream of the king.” 24 Then Daniel went to Arioch, whom the king had appointed to execute the wise men of Babylon, and said to him, “Do not execute the wise men of Babylon. Take me to the king, and I will interpret his dream for him.” 25 Arioch took Daniel to the king at once and said, “I have found a man among the exiles from Judah who can tell the king what his dream means.” 26 The king asked Daniel (also called Belteshazzar), “Are you able to tell me what I saw in my dream and interpret it?” 27 Daniel replied, “No wise man, enchanter, magician or diviner can explain to the king the mystery he has asked about, 28 but there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries. He has shown King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen in days to come. Your dream and the visions that passed through your mind as you were lying in bed are these: 29 “As Your Majesty was lying there, your mind turned to things to come, and the revealer of mysteries showed you what is going to happen. 30 As for me, this mystery has been revealed to me, not because I have greater wisdom than anyone else alive, but so that Your Majesty may know the interpretation and that you may understand what went through your mind. 31 “Your Majesty looked, and there before you stood a large statue — an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance. 32 The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay. 34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth. 36 “This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. 37 Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold. 39 “After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. 40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron breaks and smashes everything—and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay. 44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces. “The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy.” 46 Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell prostrate before Daniel and paid him honor and ordered that an offering and incense be presented to him. 47 The king said to Daniel, “Surely your God is the God of gods and the Lord of kings and a revealer of mysteries, for you were able to reveal this mystery.” 48 Then the king placed Daniel in a high position and lavished many gifts on him. He made him ruler over the entire province of Babylon and placed him in charge of all its wise men. 49 Moreover, at Daniel’s request the king appointed Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego administrators over the province of Babylon, while Daniel himself remained at the royal court.”

3.2 The statue falls

As shown here, this is the common interpretation of the statue Nebuchadnezzar dreamed of. The golden head symbolizes Babylon. The silver chest and arms symbolize Medo-Persia. Its belly and thighs of bronze stand for Greece.

The two legs shall be Rome (The Western Empire ruled from Rome and the Eastern Empire ruled from Constantinople).

The two feet and the ten toes were made from iron and clay. The ten toes shall symbolize Europe, that will rise at the end of the time, maybe nowadays. Some say, that these tribes were the Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Franks, Vandals, Alemannians, Sueves, Anglo-Saxons, Heruli, Lombards, and Burgundians and would have evolved into the nations of Europe today.

Why nothing is told about the feet in this exegesis is not known. But we will find an answer for that later.

The problem is, that the number of the European states increased steadily and are meanwhile 27, which declasses this interpretation as unsustainable.

Some, nonetheless, who are unflinchingly adhering to the traditional (and false) interpretation expect the EU to break out, so that a league of 10 states could be created.

Others are developing new theories because they must constantly adapt to changing world histories: they expect, for example, 10 state blocs to form a world government. The EU, the OPEC, the Contadora countries, the Central African states, the UN, etc., are suspected, and so they lose themselves more and more in conjectures and speculations, while the Bible text is increasingly removed.

The constantly updated and corrected interpretations of such exegetes tire the listeners and make them unresponsive to the true Biblical message.

It reminds a little of the story in which some of the sheep of a herd shouted, "The wolf is coming, the wolf is coming." At first all the sheep were frightened, until they finally got used to the silly joke and did not take it seriously. Then, when the wolf came none of the sheep listened to the warning with the corresponding consequences.

3.2.1 Rome

But back to the statue: the previous, generally acknowledged series of the world's empires in Daniel was this:

[Grafic not displayable]

· head: Babylon

· chest and arms: Medo Persia

· belly and thighs: Greece

· two legs: East- and West-Rome

· ten toes: Europe

In this way of interpreting the two legs to the Roman Empire, however, the following problem arises.

The geographic focus of the Babylonian world empire lay in the Orient. The same applies to Medo Persia. The empire of Alexander the Great also lay in the Near East. But the Roman empire, laid in Europe, 2,500 km west.

Now, when the two iron legs of the statue are interpreted as referring to the Roman Empire, the legs are equally displaced 2.500 km to the west. Then the still image cannot stand. It's about! So, legs must be under the trunk. Otherwise, no person can stand and no statue. Thus, the two legs would also have to be located in the Middle East. Of course, this is a simple picture, but it shows very well what is wrong in the current interpretations. So, it is not so safe for whom the two legs stand. Rome is not at all. We will find further reasons for this.

Our list now looks like this:

[Grafic not displayable]

· head: Babylon

· chest and arms: Medo Persia

· Belly and thighs: Greece

· two legs: ???

· ten toes: Europe

3.2.2 Greece

The clear majority of interpreters point out belly and thighs from bronze to Greece. This is not quite true. It is rather the empire of Alexander the Great. He is referred to in Daniel as the “King of Greece”. His empire was much greater than Greece, for the Greek (or Macedonian) king Alexander the Great had conquered a kingdom that extended to the Indus. It is probable that the phenomenon of linguistic inaccuracy is apt to be addressed when the term is shortened, and thus falsified, only by Greece.

Therefore, we need to change our list again:

[Grafic not displayable]

· head: Babylon

· chest and arms: Medo Persia

· belly and thighs: Alexander the Great

· two legs: ???

· ten toes: Europe

3.2.3 Europe

Above we have found that the two legs cannot be east and west. But if the two legs are not for Rome, the ten toes cannot symbolize Europe. And this in turn leads to the following, again modified list:

[Grafic not displayable]

· head: Babylon

· chest and arms: Medo Persia

· belly and thighs: Alexander the Great

· two legs: ???

· ten toes: ???

We see, then, that the sequence of the empires, which we meant to know, has suffered quite a bit. Apart from Babylon and Medo Persia, no position could be maintained. They must be refilled in this work.

3.3 Rome is not mentioned

Above, we have briefly described the statue and that the two legs cannot be Rome, because otherwise the statue will fall. Of course, this is only a picture. But there are other, very strong reasons for this view. For, despite the strong distribution of the interpretation of the two iron legs on Rome, one thing remains quite clear:

In the entire book of Daniel, the Roman Empire is not mentioned a single time!

This sounds unbelievable at first, but is like this:

Interpretations which the two iron legs point to the Roman Empire cannot be referred to any single passage in the text of the prophet Daniel. Rome is not mentioned or described in any single place! This is the case with the indisputable, purely textual findings of the book Daniel. However, this is not an insignificant fact.

Indeed, he is perfectly capable of evading the hypothetical interpretation of the statue in Rome.

The interpretation of the two iron legs of the statue on Rome is pure interpretation because of the lack of Bibles.

Some justified their point of view, pointing out that Rome was accepted in the first century AD in general for the meaning of the two legs. But this reason is based on an extrabiblical (!) source. The interpretation of the two legs on Rome is therefore a long tradition and, in the absence of a better solution, this is repeated. Alone: ​​already the reference to it suggests that the exegetes have no other source at the disposal. Especially none from the prophet Daniel.

But why do so many people interpret the two legs on Rome? In Christianity as well as in Judaism? One of the reasons is that, according to the general view, the Roman empire followed Alexander the Great. This is basically correct, but still greatly simplified.

Daniel's prophecy, on the other hand, is more differentiated. For by Daniels sight, the Diadochi kings, who were descended from his four generals, followed Alexander the Great. Only Daniel must be read to the end. More on that later.

3.4 What empires are mentioned?

For the understanding of the prophet Daniel, it is first important to determine which empires are mentioned at all. We also create a list for this:

Empires namely mentioned:

1. Babylon

2. Medo Persia

3. the king of Greece (Alexander the Great)

Empires indirectly mentioned:

4. The Diadochi, especially the Seleucids and the Ptolemies (not by name, but in all epic latitude and greatest detail and precision in Daniel 11)

In addition, the following empires are mentioned, but of minor significance and not in connection with the statue:

· Chittim (Dan. 11,30)

· Edom, Moab und Ammon (Dan. 11,41)

· Egypt, the Libyans, the Ethiopians (Dan. 11,43)

Other kingdoms are not mentioned in Daniel. The Roman Empire is neither named nor circumscribed.

Why, however, do many of them place the two legs of the statue on the Roman Empire? The reason for this is that the interpreters abandon the Bible text and instead follow the view of the historians and the tradition. It seems as if they are glad that Eastern and Western Rome are so easy to interpret on the two legs. Why does no one think about it?

The text in the prophet Daniel (and this is primarily the focus) concentrates on a completely different epoch. He does not lead his prophecy to Rome. He merely ends his prophecy with the Seleucids, or more precisely, with Antiochus IV Epiphanes in chapter 11.

And Rome is not even mentioned in Daniel!

According to Daniel 11, the sequence of the world is different:

· head: Babylon

· chest and arms: Medo Persia

· belly and thighs: Alexander the Great

· two legs: the Diadochi (Seleucids and Ptolemies – and only till 168 B.C.)

The time of the Gospels was at the time of the Roman Empire. But we don’t talk about the gospels. We talk about Daniel and he does not mention the Roman Empire, although Rome was already at the time of Antioch III. in 188 BC, strong enough to disarm him to a large extent and to obligate him to make great reparations in the so-called Peace of Apameia.

Wikipedia: "The peace of Apameia was a peace between the Roman Republic and the Seleucid empire. The peace was preceded by the Battle of Magnesia in 190 BC, in which the Romans won over the Seleucid king Antioch III. King Antioch III had to pay 12,000 talents to the Romans in twelve years' rate, and to hand out the war ships to 10. The small Asian property fell to the Roman allies in Asia. The peace of Apameia meant the rise of Rome to the determining power in the eastern Mediterranean. (Quelle: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Friede_von_Apameia, Abfragedatum: 02.05.2017)

Daniel could therefore have mentioned Rome as a political power. But he shows clearly through the stubborn omission of Rome that his view is not focused on the Roman Empire, but on the Diadochi kings and their dynasties.

Daniel chapter 8 shows this very clearly, for this chapter draws a complete line from Alexander the Great over the Diadochi and the Seleucids to the Little Horn, the antichrist, and to the end time, without even mentioning Rome:

1 In the third year of King Belshazzar’s reign, I, Daniel, had a vision, after the one that had already appeared to me. 2 In my vision I saw myself in the citadel of Susa in the province of Elam; in the vision, I was beside the Ulai Canal. 3 I looked up, and there before me was a ram [Medo Persia] with two horns [Media and Persia], standing beside the canal, and the horns were long. One of the horns [Persia]was longer than the other [Media] but grew up later. 4 I watched the ram as it charged toward the west and the north and the south. No animal could stand against it, and none could rescue from its power. It did as it pleased and became great. 5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat [Greece]with a prominent horn [Alexander the Great] between its eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground. 6 It came toward the two-horned ram I had seen standing beside the canal and charged at it in great rage. 7 I saw it attack the ram furiously, striking the ram and shattering its two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against it; the goat knocked it to the ground and trampled on it, and none could rescue the ram from its power. 8 The goat became very great, but at the height of its power the large horn [Alexander the Great] was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns the [4 Generals of Alexander: the later Diadochi] grew up toward the four winds of heaven. 9 Out of one of them [the Seleucid horn] came another horn [the ancient Antiochus Epiphanes or the future antichrist], which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. 10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. 11 It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the Lord [that did the historic Antiochus, but also can be meant as done by the antichrist]; it took away the daily sacrifice [in Jerusalem] from the Lord, and his sanctuary [the temple in Jerusalem] was thrown down. 12 Because of rebellion, the Lord’s people and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did [see Dan. 11, 36][1], and truth was thrown to the ground. 13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice [in Jerusalem], the rebellion that causes desolation [in Jerusalem], the surrender of the sanctuary [The cultic contamination of the city and the temple] and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”[2]14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”

This vision is very important to further substantiate the present argument: after Alexander the Great come the empires of the Diadochi, because Daniel tells of a goat that fights against a ram. The goat is the king of Greece (Alexander the Great). Here Daniel says clearly: after Alexander the Great comes not the Roman Empire, but the Diadochi! Because the Horn of the goat buck (Alexander) breaks and instead grow four smaller horns (the Diadochi). From one of the four horns (namely from the Seleucids) grows the Little Horn, which comes up at the end of time, that will succeed in doing what it will, and will take away the daily sacrifice and devastate God's sanctuary (the temple). The prophecy in Dan. 8 thus goes without a trace from Alexander the Great over the Diadochi to the Little Horn (Dan. 8:25) until the coming of Jesus. Where is Rome or Europe mentioned here? Nowhere! And this must be considered when interpreting Daniel’s prophecy.

A pre-fulfillment of the prophecy of Dan. 8 had already existed through Antiochus IV Epiphanes. But the actual fulfillment of this vision is secret, and it was a long time from Daniel, until his finite fulfilling (Dan 8:26). For at the time when all this happens, the sanctuary is again consecrated (v. 14), and the little horn will be broken without hands (V. 25). Thus, this face reaches to the time of the end and to the coming of Jesus Christ, without Rome playing a role ...

The Little Horn is also a direct correspondence to the Great Horn and that was unquestionably Alexander the Great (“the King of Greece”). From this and in particular from Dan. 11 (as we shall see later) it can be clearly concluded that the king of the end times will be a Seleucid, a Syrian, and not a Roman. You can feel it here that you even have to press Rome in the text, if you want (for whatever reason) to interpret the text towards Rome and Europe.

But back to the text: this end-time king will defeat Egypt (the historical Ptolemies) and thus be the successor of the historical Alexander the Great. So, the prediction for the end of the period is also based on Alexander the Great and the historical Antiochus IV Epiphanes - but again not on the Roman Empire.

3.4.1 The interpretation on Rome is wrong

The reason, and at the same time, the mistake of the idea of ​​using Rome for the two legs is that one no longer follows the biblical text of the prophet Daniel, but inadvertently follows the view of historians and tradition. Others argue that in the time of the apostle John in the 1st century, it was clear that the two legs were the eastern and western part of the Roman empire.

Here, however, one must listen closely: this justification does not come from the Bible or from Daniel, but from tradition. This is an error that should not be underestimated, and it is an absolute weak argument of the interpreters.

I would like to go further: this kind of interpretation, or the “speculation”, only erodes the prophetic statements of the Bible because it is based on extrabiblical sources, leads to false results and many unbiblical conclusions. And it must be constantly revised. The misinterpretation in Rome, or the Roman Empire is fatal to the interpretation of Daniel, and a mistake which cannot be underestimated in the interpretation of other Bibles.

But who exactly were the Diadochi? Where did they come from and what has become of them? And are there any other correlations in the statue that we can find?

3.5 The origin of the Diadochi kings

Alexander the Great died in 323 BC and had no heirs. He merely left his pregnant wife, who was unable to hold his empire together and continue to govern. She had to flee and was later murdered. After Alexander's death, four of his generals shared the empire of Alexander.

The Diadochi were four generals of Alexander:

Lysimachos

Kassander

Ptolemäios

Seleukos

Dan. 11, 3f. says about it:

“Then a mighty king will arise [Alexander the Great], who will rule with great power and do as he pleases. 4 After he has arisen, his empire will be broken up and parceled out toward the four winds of heaven [his 4 generals]. It will not go to his descendants, nor will it have the power he exercised, because his empire will be uprooted and given to others [his generals].”

Dan. 8,8:

„The goat became very great, but at the height of its power the large horn [Alexander the Great] was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven [his 4 generals].“

These four generals (the “Diadochi”) took possession of the Alexanian empire. At first there were various political coalitions and constellations, until finally Lysimachos, Kassander, Ptolemäios, and Seleukos. Each of them was a legitimate successor to Alexander the Great. But only the one who defeated the three others could prove the evidence. The two Diadochi kings Lysimachus and Kassander were meaningless, because too weak. Ptolemäios and Seleukos, on the other hand, were the two important Diadochi kings. Their two dynasties and their mutual wars are described in detail in Daniel 11, with the utmost detail. Here the sequence of the Ptolemies kings, which are mentioned in Daniel (of course, there were more Ptolemy kings, but the prophecy of Daniels is limited to those mentioned here):

323-285 1. Ptolemäus I. Soter

285-247 2. Ptolemäus II. Philadelphus

247-222 3. Ptolemäus III. Euergetes

222-205 4. Ptolemäus IV. Philopator

205-182 5. Ptolemäus V. Epiphanes

182-145 6. Ptolemäus VI. Philometor

The sequence of the Seleucid kings, which Daniel was particularly concerned in Chapter 11, was as follows[3]:

312-281 1. Seleukus I. Nikator

281-261 2. Antiochus I. Soter

261-246 3. Antiochus II. Theos

246-226 4. Seleukus II. Kallinikus

226-223 5. Seleukus III. Soter

223-187 6. Antiochus III. the Great

187-175 7. Seleukus IV. Philopator

175-163 8. Antiochus IV. Epiphanes[4]

Seleukos possessed an area which stretched approximately to today's Syria, to the present-day Turkey, to Iraq and Iran and up to the Indus. Ptolemy, on the other hand, reigned in Egypt:

[Grafic not displayable]

Nr. 1 - Captain_Blood - Eigenes Werk; Kingdoms of the Diadochi in 301 BC and 200 BC. Historical Atlas by William R. Shepherd, 1911. Courtesy of the University of Texas Libraries, The University of Texas at Austin. CC BY - SA 3.0

Both dynasties fought very hard for centuries and because they kept each other in check, Rome had enough time to become great and powerful.

After long and grueling battles, the last Seleucid king (Antiochus IV Epiphanes), who is mentioned in the Dan 11, was very successful in the struggle against the Ptolemaic empire in the summer of 168 BC and was about to defeat his long-time opponent to become Alexander's follower and ruler of the world.

This was denied him, however, as a respected politician from Rome (Gaius Popilius Laenas) denounced him and ordered him to return home without his plan to defeat the Ptolemies empire. This event has become famous as the “Day of Eleusis” and has entered the annals of history. Daniel describes this in Dan. 11, 29 f. as follows:

“At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time the outcome will be different from what it was before. 30 Ships of the western coastlands [“Chittim”] will oppose him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and vent his fury against the holy covenant. He will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant.”

Now it could be objected that "Chittim" could stand for Rome, because Laenas was a Roman. Wikipedia writes:

„The biblical term Chittim is most often interpreted as the Kingdom of Kition on the Mediterranean island of Cyprus. The term, however, also appears to have generally designated the West [5]”.

And bibelkommentare.de writes:

„In the Old Testament „the ships of Kittim” are often mentioned (4. M. 24:24), the name originally refers to Cyprus, but in Jeremiah 2:10 and Ezekiel 27:6, “The islands of the Kittaeans.”It is therefore obvious that further interests are linked to Cyprus.

Note: This formulation probably includes all island and coastal inhabitants of the Mediterranean (see the comments on the abovementioned passage in the Elberfelder translation).“[6]

Kittim means, in the narrow sense, Cyprus and possibly also means all inhabitants of the Mediterranean Sea. This is very interesting in our context. Because here, Rome is not explicitly mentioned. Daniel would have been able to name or at least describe the already existing Roman Empire. But he does not. Although Rome, as already mentioned, in 190 BC defeated the Seleucids king Antiochus III. In the historical context of Dan. 11:30, Laenas came from Delos, that is, from the Aegean Sea. “Ships from Kittim” does not in any way mean Rome, but at best the Aegean Sea.

When reading the prophet Daniel, the impression appears as if Daniel would say, "I have not overlooked Rome. But I do not mean Rome. "

3.6 The legs of the statue

But back to the statue. What exactly is the connection between the Seleucids and the Ptolemies to the two legs of the statue? It was shown above that the legs of each statue must be under its torso, because otherwise images fall over. If the two iron legs were Rome, the statue would not be able to stand.

If, however, one searches for a biblically stable, alternative interpretation for the two legs, which lies in the Near East, this is found in Daniels chapter 11. For there the two legs in the form of the Seleucids and Ptolemies are described in detail and in epic wideness. This description of the Seleucids and Ptolemies in Dan. 11 is so precisely comprehensible on the historical figures of the two dynasties that even critics must admit that these two historic royal houses are clearly meant.

Because these critics are reluctant to accept the fact that they here have real prophecy, many tend to date the prophet Daniel later, maybe in the 1. century BC (Daniel wrote in 550 BC), while others believe that Chapter 11 is later inserted into the text of the book of Daniel. But to do this, one would have to change or exchange all the Torah roles in all synagogues of the Middle East and the Mediterranean within hours. This is extremely unlikely, but it shows at the same time the great dilemma because of the very clear statements in Chapter 11 of Daniel.

Thus, based on the text analysis, it can be asserted with all certainty that the Seleucids and the Ptolemies are represented by the two iron legs. For the meaning of the two legs is still open and the Seleucids and the Ptolemies have not yet been assigned to the statue. Nothing is therefore more obvious than interpreting the two legs on the Seleucids and the Ptolemies, and nothing more corresponds to the Biblical text than this kind of interpretation.

For the customary interpretation of the two legs on the Roman Empire, the Seleucids and the Ptolemies are regularly left on the left, although these two occupy the greatest space in Daniel's prophecy. Antiochus IV. Epiphanes is regarded as the type for the antichrist, but at the same time the antichrist is presumed to be in Rome, and so, with this strange interpretation, the audience is bewildered.

It is appropriate, on the other hand, to interpret the two legs for the Seleucids and the Ptolemies. As already mentioned, no other empire, neither Babylon, Medo Persia, nor Alexander the Great, occupies so much space as the two dynasties of the Seleucids and the Ptolemies in chapter 11. It should be borne in mind that the complete chapter 10 and at least parts, if not the entire chapter 12 would have to be added.

Thus three of the twelve chapters in the Prophet Daniel report, and thus a quarter of the whole book on the Seleucids and the Ptolemies. Finally, the Seleucids and the Ptolemies belong to the Diadochi, which according to Daniel (s.o.) followed Alexander the Great, as did the legs on the trunk.

3.7 The statue stands

We have now taken a very important step in the interpretation of the statue. For now, the two legs are below the trunk and our list of worlds looks for the time:

· head: Babylon

· chest and arms: Medo Persia

· belly and thighs: Alexander the Great

· two legs: the Seleucids and the Ptolemies

· ten toes: ???

3.8 A healthy uncertainty

To interpret the two legs of the statue on the Seleucids and the Ptolemies is new and thus does not correspond to the hitherto existing idea that the Roman Empire and thus Europe would be described in the book of Daniel. However, the irritation that may occur is not caused by the text of the Bible or the view described here, but merely that an interpretation has been accepted which has no biblical foundation in the text, which has just been proved.

Thus, as with any interpretation, it is necessary to keep close to the text of the Bible and not to follow its own ideas or the ideas of the historians. In the interpretation of the Bible, and especially in the exegesis of Daniel, it is essential to first analyze the text of the Bible, and then to draw conclusions, independently of one's own ideas or even preferences. This is the principle of all biblical interpretation.

In the interpretation of the two legs on the Roman Empire and the ten toes on Europe, this important rule was, however, regularly broken.

3.9 Seven Kings

Before we had already listed the Ptolemies and Seleucids kings.

Very interesting is the fact that in Daniel 11 a king was omitted in the list of the Seleucids kings!

Unfortunately, Dr. Liebi has kept this secret in his book. Of course, in the case of a text that is otherwise appreciated by friends and foes because of its historicity and accuracy, this is an Achilles heel. Was it rather be kept secret because one had no explanation?

But if this text, which is as precise as the dynasties of the Seleucids and the Ptolemies, expires, a king may be skipping, can it be that the omission of the one king makes a hitherto unknown sense? We continue to reflect on this.

3.10 One king is omitted!

In the collection of the Seleucids kings, the 2nd king, Antiochus I Soter, was omitted. For the marriage, which Daniel mentioned in chap. 11, took place between the 3rd Seleucids king (Antiochus II Theos) and Berenice, a Ptolemies princess. With this Daniel skips a king, so the following order follows:

312-281 1. Seleukus I. Nikator

281-261 - Antiochus I. Soter (omitted!)

261-246 2. Antiochus II. Theos

246-226 3. Seleukus II. Kallinikus

226-223 4. Seleukus III. Soter

223-187 5. Antiochus III. the Great

187-175 6. Seleukus IV. Philopator

175-163 7. Antiochus IV. Epiphanes

But because a king is missing, Antiochus IV. Epiphanes, who was according to the historical method of counting the 8th Seleucids king, becomes the seventh Seleucids king!

It is known that Daniel 11, 21-45 reports of the Seleucids king Antiochus IV Epiphanes. On closer inspection, however, there is a second king, which is very like Antiochus IV Epiphanes. This passage is divided into two parts: the first part (from verse 22 - verse 35) is about the historic Antiochus IV Epiphanes, the second part (from verse 36 - verse 45) of a future ruler.

This future ruler is in the Seleucids-Dynasty according to biblical counting the eighth king.

This eighth king is closely connected with the historical person of Antiochus IV Epiphanes. He will besiege Jerusalem and find his end there.

Once again it is clear that the end-time vision of Daniel clearly draws a Seleucid king and does not aim at Rome and does not predict any new Europe. For no Roman commander, nor any Seleucid king, is reported to have perished in the siege of Jerusalem. Therefore, we must expand our list by an eighth king and so it looks like this:

312-281 1. Seleukus I. Nikator

281-261 - Antiochus I. Soter (omitted!)

261-246 2. Antiochus II. Theos

246-226 3. Seleukus II. Kallinikus

226-223 4. Seleukus III. Soter

223-187 5. Antiochus III. the Great

187-175 6. Seleukus IV. Philopator

175-163 7. Antiochus IV. Epiphanes

- time leap –

End time 8. end timely upcoming of a new Antiochus Epiphanes: the Antichrist

We later return to this list again.

3.11 Consequences

On the contrary to the tradition so far, Daniel predicts a new Seleucid and a new Ptolemaic world. It combines the characteristics of Babylon, Medo Persia and Alexander the Great. For John sees in Revelation 13:2 an animal rising out of the sea: “The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion.“.

John describes an animal that combines the qualities of all three empires: Babylon, Medo Persia, and Alexander the Great.

And this in reverse order! For he writes of a panther, a bear, and a lion. The panther stood for Alexander the Great, the bear for Medo Persia, and the lion for Babylon. But if John enumerates the empires in the reverse order, it seems as if God reverses and returns the world-history, not only back to Rome, but even farther: to the Seleucids and the Ptolemies - indeed back to Babylon!

It won’t be Rome, but the historical Seleucids and Ptolemies kings, who will come at the end of the church time, though smaller (as feet) and weaker (as iron mixed with clay) than their historical counterparts. At the end of the church-time, the so called “Neo-Seleucids” and the “Neo-Ptolemies” will enter a fight with each other, that the Neo-Seleucid will decide for himself. For the end-time successor of Antioch IV Epiphanes, according to Dan. 11:36:

“The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.”

For he will be able to do what the historical Antiochus IV Epiphanes had failed on the day of Eleusis in 168 BC: to defeat Egypt7 and to build up an empire in greatness and power, which unites the qualities of Babylon, Medo Persia, and Alexander the Great. Antiochus Epiphanes couldn’t do that, but his end-time successor will.

Daniel says in Dan 11:42 f.:

“42 He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 He shall become ruler of the treasures of gold and of silver, and all the precious things of Egypt, and the Libyans and the Cushites shall follow in his train.”

This is what Daniel wants to show us: the end-time kingdom will be a Seleucid empire, at least as great as that of Alexander the Great, for Egypt, Libya and Kush are in his retinue.

3.12 ten toes

Above we had already established that the ten toes can’t be European states, which are supposed to come back in our time when the two iron legs are the Seleucids and the Ptolemies. The ten toes, like the legs, must be in the Near East. They must be closely connected to the two legs and the two feet and they must be found in the Bible and not in the tradition or any assumptions and conjectures that are arbitrarily selected and not based on the text of the Bible.

The actual meaning of the ten toes of the statue is surprising. But it is known to every half-way informed bible reader. For the ten toes are mentioned several times in the New Testament. But they haven’t been brought to Daniel's statue in connection with the ten toes.

To anticipate the result: the meaning of the ten toes of the statue is found in the Decapolis, the region of the “Ten Cities”.

The Decapolis was a group of initially 10 cities generally located to the east of the Sea of Galilee, which were originally founded by Alexander the Great and the Seleucids[7]!

The towns themselves were thus already older, their foundations extend to the 3rd or 4th century B.C., and in some cases even much further back. The exact date when the confederation of the Decapolis was built isn’t known. The first century B.C. is assumed.

According to scientific findings, the concept of a Decapolis was only manifested in the 1st century AD. We have only two sources: Pliny and the bible, whereas the most important (!) source is the New Testament (!). That’s not so bad!

The Decapolis is mentioned in Mt 4.25 in Mark 5:20 and in Mark 7:31. Jesus visited the area of ​​the Ten Cities, and freed the Gadarener from demons.

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Nr. 1 – The cities of the Decapolis (Source ans license: Bibelwerk Linz, 2017)

The region of the Ten Cities was considered by the Jews to be the darkest region, for there lived heathens, there were possessed, demons and pig-breeding.

And, as already mentioned, we nowadays have only one more source besides the above-mentioned bible-verses: a list of the cities belonging to the Decapolis, by Pliny the Elder 80 AD.

But it is a wonderful thing, to have that information within the Bible itself! Still the best source for prophetic exegesis!

If we want to interpret the two legs to the Seleucids and the Ptolemies, we must conclusively expound the ten toes on the Decapolis, because the cities of the Decapolis were, contrary to the previous conception, not founded by the Romans, but by the Seleucids. It was a historic political group of cities, to which belonged the following cities: Damascus, Kanatha, Dion, Hippos, Raphana, Gadara, Scythopolis (the only city in the west of Jordan, today’s Beth Shean), Pella, Gerasa and Philadelphia (today’s Amman).

Wikipedia writes on his German website:

„Decapolis (Δεκάπολις - "Ten Cities") denotes ten ancient cities east and south of the Sea of ​​Galilee, between Damascus in the north and Philadelphia (today Amman) in the south. These cities had been founded or reformed after the conquest of the territory by Alexander the Great, and among his Seleucid successors, according to the Greek model. They were situated in the region designated as Koilesyrien during the Diadochi period, which had long been disputed between Seleucids and Ptolemies.“[8]

The Decapolis is thus closely related to Alexander the Great and the Seleucids. It is in the same region, where the legs of the statue stood or stand, and it is the last political construct left over from the ending Seleucids kingdom!

If, based on the many clues we have now gathered, we accept the Decapolis as a meaning to the ten toes of the statue, then this is indeed a strict interpretation of the statue in the prophet Daniel, for now the toes are also where the rest of the statue is located.

And even most importantly, this 10 does not change anymore! This 10 of the Decapolis is vouchsafed in and through the Bible! There is no further speculation about any 10-state confederation, which would have to be guessed from world history. The Decapolis is an inner-biblical (!) story and will repeat itself in the end times. This should put an end to speculation, so hopefully no listener or reader will no more be tired of any kinds of senseless interpretation. The list of the empires is now:

· head: Babylon

· chest and arms: Medo Persia

· belly and thighs: Alexander the Great

· two legs: the Seleucids and the Ptolemies

· ten toes: the Decapolis

If the book of Daniel is to be interpreted consistently and the two legs are to be interpreted as referring to the Seleucids and the Ptolemies, then the ten toes must be laid down for the Decapolis. This political structure emerges again in the end time!

It is understandable that this point of view sounds unusual at first sight. But it is theological, scientific and archaeological evidence that the cities of the Decapolis were founded by the Seleucids. Thus, the Decapolis is closely linked to the Seleucids. Both will reappear in the end time.

3.12.1 Aretas

There is another biblical passage in the New Testament, which indirectly points to the Decapolis. Paul had had to hide in Damascus after preaching the Gospel there. The king Aretas, to catch Paul, guarded the city without penetration, so Paul had the opportunity to flee across the city wall. Historians suspect that Aretas had not penetrated Damascus, but merely besieged the city from the outside because it was in an alliance with the other nine cities of the Decapolis, and he wanted to avoid a political scandal or a warlike conflict.

Decapolis is, therefore, more frequently mentioned in the New Testament than was perhaps known at first.

3.13 The feet

Slowly, the statue completes before our inner eye. However, there is still an unexplained body part of our statue and these are the feet.

Often, when I asked Christians about the meaning of the feet of the statue, they were astonished and puzzled. All of them have interpreted the two legs on the eastern and western part of Rome and the ten toes on a modern Eu-rope, but no one has seen the importance of the two feet in this story. But the feet are especially important! For at the time of the two feet Christ comes back again. Dan. 2, 44 f.:

„ And in the days of those kings [feet and toes] the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.“

Dan. 2, 34:

“As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.”

The stone, which is torn down without a hand from the mountain, strikes the statue to its feet at the time of these kings - explains Daniel Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. If this stone is Christ, then the two feet will reign at the time when Christ comes again. But this can only be at the end of time, because Christ has not yet come and the kingdom is not yet here.

That is, the two legs of the statue end in 168 BC. Then follows a long period of time, and in the end, just before the return of Christ, the historical, political structures we now know will be repeated: a small Seleucid and a small Ptolemies empire, both symbolized by the two feet. Between the two legs on the one hand and the two feet with the ten toes on the other hand, there is a time leap from about 168 BC (day of Eleusis) to the end time.

While the two legs were made of iron, the two feet and the toes are made of iron and clay. They are combined by their material, but separated from the legs, because they belong to another time.

This is how our list of empires now looks like:

· head: Babylon

· chest and arms: Medo Persia

· belly and thighs: Alexander the Great

· two legs: the Seleucids and the Ptolemies

· two feet: the Neo-Seleucids and the Neo-Ptolemies

· ten toes: the Decapolis

Now the statue is complete! It extends from Babylon via Medo Persia and Alexander the Great straight to the historical Seleucids and the historical Decapolis, ending in the repetition of this Seleucid structure in the end time with a new, end-time Antiochus Epiphanes and an end-time repetition of the Decapolis!

From this we can derive the following overview:

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Empire Part of the statue Time

Babylon The golden head Past

Medo Persia The silver chest and the arms Past

Alexander the Great The bronze belly and thighs Past

Seleucids / Ptolemies Both iron legs Past

(Time-leap from 2. century B.C. to the end-time)

The Neo-Seleucids

and the Neo-Ptolemies Both feet of iron and clay Future

The Decapolis Ten toes Future

In the end time a political structure, already known from ancient times, will be repeated: A Neo-Seleucid empire and a Neo-Ptolemy empire. This in conjunction with the end-time re-edition of a structure like that of the historical Decapolis, while the Neo-Seleucid will defeat the Neo-Ptolemy and will rule the world. As written in Rev. 17:8:

“The beast that you saw [the Seleucids] was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvelto see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.”

3.14 The new statue

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This is how the statue looks when Daniel's text is observed: all parts of the statue are now in the Middle East and the statue is completed. The body parts were all argued from biblical sources and there is no longer need to be reworked if world-political structures are changing.

3.15 Transfer to todays situation

According to today’s discretion it is yet hardly conceivable that a new Decapolis is being built in the present state territory of Syria and Jordan. Perhaps the political turmoil in the region suggests this, but that is uncertain. Alone: ​​the biblical evidence from the exact analysis of Daniel’s prophecy shows us this structure more than clearly. How and when God reconciles the geopolitical orders in the Middle East with his prophecy remains a mystery today. But our time is fast-paced and the Word of God must and will be fulfilled.

In the end time, this historic structure will be repeated. For, as John says in Revelation, this kingdom was and is not, and will return, and enter into the abyss. The kingdom of the Seleucids comes again in the form of the two feet and the ten toes. However, smaller (feet instead of legs) and weaker (iron mixed with clay instead of pure iron).

There will be a Neo-Seleucid Empire and a Neo-Ptolemies Empire (Syria and Egypt). These will be closely linked to a newly emerging Decapolis. The King of the Seleucids, on the other hand, will bring all power to him, for this king will do as he will: he will defeat Egypt, and the Decapolis will give up his power, for the 10 horns in Rev. 17,12 f. give their power to the beast:

“And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast.”

This is also the reason why the beast in Rev. 12 has ten crowned horns and in Rev. 13 seven crowned heads. But that's going to break our frame.

The two feet are thus the end-time repetition of the historical Seleucids and Ptolemies. These two feet are supplemented by the ten toes, which are also in the Near East and are determined by the structure of the Decapolis.

Now the statue from the head to the toes is complete. All the empires mentioned in Daniel and all the political structures now stand side by side. The statue can now be erected or better still: it can now be explained.

The succession of the worlds now looks as follows:

· head: Babylon

· chest and arms: Medo Persia

· belly and thighs: Alexander the Great

· two legs: die Seleucids and die Ptolemies

· two feet: the end-timely smaller and weaker repetition of the Seleucids- and Ptolemies

· ten toes: the end-timely repetition of the Decapolis

As unusual as this exegesis may seem, it is better suited to the biblical text and to the archaeological and historical knowledge, than to any other attempt at explanation. Thus, the complete meaning of the statue is clarified.

3.16 The four animals in Daniels dream

Let us now try to understand Dan. 7 with the knowledge that we have worked out:

“In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying in bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream. 2 Daniel said: “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. 3 Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea. 4 “The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle [Babylon]. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a human being, and the mind of a human was given to it [maybe when Nebuchadnezzar turned his heart to God]. 5 “And there before me was a second beast [Medo Persia], which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides [because Persia was mightier than Media], and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, ‘Get up and eat your fill of flesh!’ 6 “After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard [the king of Greece]. And on its back it had four wings [the four Diadochi] like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule. 7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast [the historic Seleucids] — terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns [the Decapolis]. 8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one [the Antichrist], which came up among them; and three [maybe three of the ten cities of the Decapolis] of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 9 “As I looked, “thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days [God] took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. 10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened. 11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.) 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man [Christ], coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. 15 “I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit, and the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me. 16 I approached one of those standing there and asked him the meaning of all this. “So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things: 17 ‘The four great beasts are four kings that will rise from the earth [Babylon, Medo Persia, Alexander the Great and the Seleucids]. 18 But the holy people of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever — yes, for ever and ever.’ 19 “Then I wanted to know the meaning of the fourth beast [the Seleucids], which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws — the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. 20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns [the Decapolis] on its head and about the other horn [the Antichrist] that came up, before which three of them fell — the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom. 23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom [the Seleucids] that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms [because it appears twice in history] and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom [That’s quite interesting: these are not 10 European estates that come from the ancient Rome, but it’s the Decapolis, that comes from the Seleucids!]. After them another king [the Antichrist]will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings.”

3.17 Ram and goat

Chapter 8 in Daniel also supports the thesis that Rome is not mentioned in Daniel. For the vision ranges from Medo Persia and Alexander the Great to the end time, without even mentioning Rome once! Dan. 8:

“1 In the third year of King Belshazzar’s reign, I, Daniel, had a vision, after the one that had already appeared to me. 2 In my vision I saw myself in the citadel of Susa in the province of Elam; in the vision I was beside the Ulai Canal. 3 I looked up, and there before me was a ram with two horns, standing beside the canal, and the horns were long. One of the horns was longer than the other but grew up later. 4 I watched the ram as it charged toward the west and the north and the south. No animal could stand against it, and none could rescue from its power. It did as it pleased and became great. 5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between its eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground. 6 It came toward the two-horned ram I had seen standing beside the canal and charged at it in great rage. 7 I saw it attack the ram furiously, striking the ram and shattering its two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against it; the goat knocked it to the ground and trampled on it, and none could rescue the ram from its power. 8 The goat became very great, but at the height of its power the large horn was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven. 9 Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. 10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. 11 It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the Lord; it took away the daily sacrifice from the Lord, and his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 Because of rebellion, the Lord’s people1 and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground. 13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?” 14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.” 15 While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.” 17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,”2 he said to me, “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.” 18 While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet. 19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power. 23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people. 25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power. 26 “The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.” 27 I, Daniel, was worn out. I lay exhausted for several days. Then I got up and went about the king’s business. I was appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding.”

Let us first look at the weighting in Chapter 8:

· Verses 3 and 4 talk about the ram (Medo Persia).

· Verse 5 to 7 talk about the ram as well as about the goat (Alexander the Great) but with a clear focus on the goat!

· From verse 8 (17 verses!) only the goat is talked about (Alexander the Great).

· His political successors reach till the end-time. While Rome is nowhere mentioned not at all!

It is precisely in Chapter 8 that it is very clear that the Roman empire plays no part in Daniel’s prophecy. Seventeen (!) of the total of 24 verses (more than 70% of the text) act solely from the goat, that is, from Alexander the Great. His offspring, both the four horns (the Diadochi), and the small horn, reach into the end time.

Nowhere in Dan. 8 the Roman empire is mentioned!

The line goes uninterruptedly from Alexander the Great over the four Diadochi to the little horn, which grows from one of the four horns (namely from the Seleucids). This small horn is the end-time copy of Antiochus IV. Epiphanes: the antichrist. This is also the reason why the beast, Daniel sees in chapter 7, has iron teeth and brazen claws: iron for the Seleucids, and brazen for Alexander the Great!

Again and again Daniel draws this line before our eyes, until it finally culminates in the great text in Dan. 11. Why only do we always turn our eyes away from that and turn to Rome? Of course, the Roman Catholic Church has lots of dark stain in her history. But here we don’t talk about churches. We talk about politics and empires … Neither the Roman empire nor the Roman Catholic Church is mentioned in Daniel. To say this is just quite inexplicable and does not do justice to the text in Daniel.

3.18 Counterarguments

3.18.1 This empire is to small

Many expect a worldwide antichristian empire. But God's ways are not dependent on our expectations. He said in his word what will come. We just must read it carefully. Nevertheless, many of the views expressed here appear too regional. For the reason why this is so, the following reasons are given:

3.18.2 Babylon was small

Daniel calls Nebuchadnezzar a king of all kings, although Babylon's realm was very limited in the region. Babylon had no influence on Europe or China, although there reigned greater kings, when Babylon was this. Yet Daniel Nebuchadnezzar calls a king of kings!

3.18.3 This empire will be very large

The kingdom of the end-time Antioch will range from Libya to India. Libya, Ethiopia, Egypt, Israel, Syria, Turkey, Iraq and Iran, various Turkic people, Pakistan, etc. belong to it. This is truly a very great world. It is at least as great as the empire of Alexander the Great, and is likely to extend beyond it.

Dan 11, 42 f.:

“He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. He shall become ruler of the treasures of gold and of silver, and all the precious things of Egypt, and the Libyans and the Cushites shall follow in his train.”

3.18.4 But isn’t the Whore of Babylon Rome?

Perhaps one or the other may recall the previous interpretation of Revelation 17. For the Whore of Babylon described there is supposed to be a picture of the Vatican, which, like the city of Rome, lies on seven hills. The text says that the beast with seven heads and ten horns carries the Whore of Babylon. These seven heads on which the woman sits are seven mountains, and the beast and the woman are a great mystery. From this it has so far always been deduced that the Whore of Babylon is a picture of Rome, which also lies on seven hills.

However, in the Bible text, there is nothing told of “hills”, but of “mountains”. This is first the purely textual finding. This does not fit together: the supposed proof is hypothetical. And not least because not only Rome but also many other cities lie on seven hills:

· Amman

· Athens

· Bamberg

· Jerusalem

· Lisbon

· Moscow

· Siegen

· Würzburg

· and so on …

Thus, with the same justification with which the whore is interpreted as referring to Rome, one could call Moscow, Siegen, or Jerusalem the whore of Babylon. Or Athens, Lisbon, Würzburg, etc. If you do so alone, because of the “seven mountains” mentioned in Rev. 17, the city of Rome and the Vatican are interpreted into the text. But if we do so, we use again extra-biblical opinions. More valid arguments should be given than this.

The Bible says that the seven mountains are seven kings. So, they must be kings. Here one argues mostly with an arbitrary list of the world's empires to Rome:

Past („has been“): 1. King = Egypt 2. King = Assyria 3. King = Babylon 4. King = Medo Persia 5. King = Greece

Present („is not now“): 6. King = Rome

Future („will come again“): 7. King = the antichristian empire in the end-time

With this list, it is believed that Rev. 17 is explained. However, this is a collection that does not exist anywhere in the Bible! It is more or less arbitrarily combined and could be completely different if wanted.

There is also a lack of a biblical (!) source description which is comprehensible and reliable. This list is no more than a constructed presumption, and the listeners have been tired of this kind of interpretation in recent years and decades.

On closer inspection, the impression appears as if the interpretation has long since erupted from the text of the Bible and goes its own way. But then it is no longer exegesis, but interpretation or even speculation. This is not what we are looking for. We seek clear biblical correspondences and causal connections within the text of the Bible and this is not lacking if we let the Bible itself speak.

3.18.5 Seven heads

Let’s have a closer look to Rev. 17,11:

„ As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction.“

Rev. 11 speaks of an eighth king, who belongs to the seven and goes to destruction. This eighth king, however, is evidently not included in the list shown above! For it ends with the seventh king, which she wants to point to the antichristian end-time. In this case, too, this kind of interpreting takes too short a meaning and does not correspond to the biblical text again. For she cannot explain the 8th king!

3.18.6 Who is the 8th king?

Above we have seen that Daniel enumerates the Seleucid kings in great detail, but nevertheless omits a king. This is very unusual. But God has not forgotten this second king, who has ruled for twenty years, in his prophecy. It is rather as if we, as a bible-reader, are stumbling about the fact that he was left out. On closer inspection, the following structure results:

Historically, Antiochus IV Epiphanes was the 8th Seleucid King.

On the other hand, Antiochus IV Epiphanes is the 7th Seleucid king according to biblical methods. For the 2nd Seleucid king (Antiochus I Soter) is not mentioned in Daniel, and thus Antiochus IV. Epiphanes becomes the 7th Seleucid king according to the biblical (!) Method of counting.

The text in Daniel 11, 22-45 deals with Antiochus IV. Epiphanes. On closer inspection, however, it can be seen that from verse 36 to verse 45, the text speaks of another, or a future king. This text section of verse 36-45 thus speaks (according to biblical counting) of an 8th Seleucid king!

Now we are looking for the meaning of the 7 heads of the end-time beast in Rev. 17. The Bible says there the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. The Bible shows us the following: the seven heads stand for the seven Seleucid kings.

This list of seven kings is contained in the Bible itself (see Dan. 11)! We do not have to make a list by our own, but the Bible itself provides us with this lineup in Daniel 11.

So, for the exegesis of Rev. 17, exists an inner-biblical (!) source. This is of paramount importance for the reliability of the exegesis made here, and it makes a lasting difference between the abovementioned ones!

This inner-biblical explanation for the seven heads and the seven mountains in Rev. 17 also lies precisely in the book of the Bible which most closely approximates the revelation of John: the prophet Daniel.

This list, therefore, has not been compiled arbitrarily, but merely points to the list which the Bible has left us in Daniel. This list contains 7 and even the 8th Seleucids King!

The king, who comes only at the end of time, will succeed in doing, what he will (Dan 11, 36) and who descends from the seven! This in turn enables us to see and understand Revelation 17 with completely new eyes.

3.18.7 The whore of Babylon is in the Near East

If the beast with the seven heads and the ten horns is a picture of the Seleucids (7 heads) in connection with the Decapolis (10 horns), and if the 8th king is an end-time king likely the historic Antiochus IV Epiphanes, then the whore can only be sitting on this animal when she is also in the Near East. Otherwise she falls from the animal.

But who in the Near East is to stand for the Great Whore of Babylon, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth, drunk with the blood of the saints (from the Old Testament) and the witnesses of Jesus (from the New Testament)?

The Great Whore of Babylon, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth is … Jerusalem.

This is a big mystery. It is so amazing that even John was amazed when he saw her. But we must learn not to read the Bible out of our perspective as a European or as an American or as an Asian. We must get rid of what we have in mind and let us in on the perspective of the Bible and its statements.

Rev. 17, 5 f.:

“Here is the name that was written on her forehead. Mystery the great city of babylon the mother of prostitutes the mother of everything on earth that god hates 6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God's people. They are the ones who gave witness to Jesus. When I saw her, I was very amazed.

3.18.8 Exegesis of Revelation 17

The knowledge of the following facts and conclusions from the Bible text are necessary to understand Rev. 17:

a) The whore of Babylon, is the end-time Jerusalem.

b) The beast carrying the Jerusalem, which has fallen from God, is the kingdom of Seleucids, consisting of seven kings from Dan. 11, which reappears at the end of time.

c) The 8th king is the repetition of a person who is developed in the Bible in Dan. 11 from Antiochus IV. Epiphanes and predicted for the end-time.

d) It is obvious that this 8thking, like his historical model, will be a Seleucid or Syrian.

e) His coming kingdom is symbolized here by the 7 heads, namely the Seleucid kings listed in (!) the Bible text, which are enumerated in Daniel 11.

f) These 7 heads are also 7 mountains, namely 7 political empires: the sequence of the Seleucids dynasty. And, of course, there are also 7 kings, namely Seleucid kings.

The 8th of them is “of the seven and goes into damnation”. Thus, the present interpretation is coherent - and this is because Rome has been disregarded, and the focus is simply placed on the Diadochi and their successors (epigones), as the biblical text in Daniel states.

This beast (the Seleucid empire), which “was and is not and yet will come”, will reappear at the end of the church, as described in verse 8. We now have a very precise explanation of what John writes in Rev. 17.

Thus, the understanding of the texts of Revelation is also most strongly influenced by the way we interpret the statue of the prophet Daniel.

Let us now try to understand the text in Rev. 17 with what we have found so far. Rev. 17, 1-9:

“1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute [the fallen Jerusalem], who sits by many waters. 2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.” 3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast [the end-timely Seleucids empire] that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads [the seven Seleucids kings] and ten horns [the Decapolis]. 4 The woman [Jerusalem]was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5 The name written on her forehead was a mystery: babylon the great [Jerusalem] the mother of prostitutes and of the abominations of the earth. 6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. When I saw her, I was greatly astonished [John wouldn’t have expected Jerusalem here]. 7 Then the angel said to me: “Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads [die Seleucids]and ten horns [die Decapolis]. 8 The beast [die Seleucids], which you saw, once was [322 – 186 B.C.], now is not [through the centuries], and yet will come up out of the Abyss [at the last time of the church] and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast [the Seleucids], because it once was, now is not, and yet will come. 9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills [seven kingdoms] on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings [the seven in Daniel listed Diadochi-kings]. Five have fallen, one is [the sixth Seleucid-king], the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king [the end-timely repetition of the historic Antiochus Epiphanes]. He belongs to the seven [to the seven Seleucid-kings] and is going to his destruction. 12 “The ten horns [the Decapolis] you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as [they are not real kings but a kind of kings, maybe majors]kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast [the reign changes from the end-timely Decapolis to the end-timely Seleucid-king].”

It is becoming increasingly clear how important it is to respect the Bible text and not to confuse interpretation with interpretation, even if the result does not correspond to our expectations at first. But it is also clear that an interpretation that is closely related to the biblical text is conclusive and easy to understand. To fully understand the text, we should now have to speak of the rebirth of Jerusalem, and how this relates to the appearance of the antichrist, but that breaks our framework.

We recommend the two books, “Die Wiedergeburt Jerusalems” and “Die Akte Jerusalem,” which are available in bookshops.

4. Summary

The following is clear:

Rome plays no role in God's end-time program

An end-time reissue of the historical Seleucid empire will come

An end-time reissue of the historical Antiochus IV Epiphanes will come

This king is the antichrist, the beast coming out of the sea

An empire unrestrained in its expansion, which becomes greater than Alexander the Great will come

A kingdom that unites elements of ancient Babylon, Medo Persia, Alexander the Great and the Seleucids will come

This empire is closely linked to an end-time re-edition of the historic Decapolis

This kingdom and its king will attack and conquer Jerusalem. Its time is limited to 42 months. God himself will finally fight and defeat the antichrist

5. End

From this point of view, as briefly described above, the consequences for the interpretation of other eschatological Biblical texts are obvious. Readers may have further questions that could cause the continuation of this work. For the time being, this is sufficient.

I would very much like the reader to check all my statements on the Bible. The use of extrabiblical sources falsify - as we have seen - the word of God.

But on the other Hand, we now have a clear view about what will come at the end-time. Maybe America, Europe, Asia, e.g. are not much influenced by this development, and suddenly, unexpectedly, Jesus comes back. We hope so.

With cordial blessings, Achim Klein

Wurmberg, Germany, May 2017

[e-mail]

[1] Here is a very strong indication of the last time. Because this formulation is the same as in Dan. 11.36. At the latest from here on, the text talks about the antichrist. [2] This list is very difficult to understand and presupposes the knowledge that Jerusalem comes at the end of time through war and siege in "labour" and will be born again. Jerusalem comes to faith in Jesus Christ. See therefore the book, "Die Wiedergeburt Jerusalems" Achim Klein, bod, 2016. A detailed explanation of the verses breaks the boundaries given here. The notification of the verses is sufficient for now, since they only touch our subject. [3] The same applies to the Seleucids. [4] Source: Roger Liebi, „Weltgeschichte im Visier des Propheten Daniel", Schwengeler-Verlag, CH-9442 Berneck, 1986, S.86 [5] Quelle: Wikipedia, https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kittim, Abfragedatum: 23.04.2017 [6] Quelle: https://www.bibelkommentare.de/index.php?page=dict&article_id=1517, Abfragedatum: 23.04.2017 [7] Lt. Pliny the Elder, 80 A.D. [8] Quelle: Wikipedia - „Decapolis - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decapolis - Abfragedatum: 25.04.2017